CWD: A pedantic, somewhat predictable, but still interesting question re Burgundy vintages

Well I had to check on the 99s myself. Hubert Lignier Morey St. Denis 1er Cru Les Chaffots 1999 was more open than I expected. Really focused stuff. Not luscious yet. But incredibly pure. I think it was Dressner who once said a particular should be tasted while lounging on a sofa in the rain. That would fit.
 
originally posted by Scott Kraft:
Really focused stuff. Not luscious yet. But incredibly pure.

That exactly mirrors my bottle of Barthod Charmes.

I disagree with Jay, BTW.

2006: I like it. I haven't drank broadly, but what I've had, I've enjoyed. Precocious wines.

1997: Mugnier wines are a failure. I've had successful wines from other folks. Generally Gevrey or Nuits.

Totally agree on 2000.
 
+1 on the 2000. I wish I had more. A Chevillon Busselots 2000 rocked the other night. These are much longer lasting than I expected.
 
originally posted by Scott Kraft:
+1 on the 2000. I wish I had more. A Chevillon Busselots 2000 rocked the other night. These are much longer lasting than I expected.

And so much prettier.

Arnoux fucking Echezeax for pete's sake. Whoda thunk it?
 
originally posted by Scott Kraft:
+1 on the 2000. I wish I had more. A Chevillon Busselots 2000 rocked the other night. These are much longer lasting than I expected.

had LSG a year ago - amazing

seems like the vintage is a great fit for their style and aging curve
 
my stick has been poked.

originally posted by Jay Miller:


1983 - the good ones are perfectly mature right now and drinking well

weird shit. some turned out nice. kinda nice even. but they still make you feel dirty. it's like your neice with the club foot growing up and turning out to be kinda sexy,

1985 - some are faded, some are gorgeous

i still have some of this shit. i'm a fucktard.

trust me. no matter what it is, it tasted better prior to july 88. it won't be horrible, at all, but it won't make you run away and join the circus like it used to when it was young and you wish you still were.

sometimes a puppy is only for christmas.

1986 - very mixed for me

one of jayer's great vintages for finesse. wtf?

else see 83. but cute rather than sexy. at best.

1987 - some very good ones but no reason not to drink up. I generally prefer it to 1986. a d'Angerville was really really nice a few years ago

i like.

and still not at the "drink up" stage -- a geo. mugneret clos vougeot that joe and i shared the other week could have done with another few years.

1988 - starting to drink well but should mostly hold longer (but I've been saying that for several years)

if you like burgundy, you ought to have poured a shit-load of this down the sink.

oh, you did?

me too.

my sense of regret at buying these is now in conflict with my sense of regret at thinking the i could open a borthod bougogne at ~30 years of age and not find that shit still closed (oh fuck, and i remember tasting it all full of youthful promise and thinking, "88pts, drink 1993 - 2000" -- what went wrong there??).

see 1983. but much sexier.

i need help.

1989 - I've had some Volnays I like very much from this vintage

not as lame as 97. but nearly as lame.

1990 - the good ones can be very good, the bad ones are all stewed fruit, yech

see 1983. in cooler sites (fixin, pernand) this is sexy without the calipers.

but ask to see medical records.

1991 - I find it more consistently good

i was looking through old paperwork the other day, and was surprised to discover that i'd managed to get through 4 cases of chevillon chaignots from 91 (i must have liked something about it), without ever coming close to that, "no, just hold me," moment. or even a, "no, please, just hold my hand," moment either.

slightly tannic and slightly unfocussed acidity... a monet vintage on the whole, and not as good as the geeks paint it. (nor is it as bad for whites as auntie told you.)

1992 - had some great ones years ago, nothing recently

cute puppies. twenty years ago. what kind of perv are you?

1993 - starting to show well, but certainly hold your grand crus

good. better now than they've ever been. and less variable with age than you were told.

1994 - yet to have one I liked but of course I only bought my first Burgundies with the 1995 vintage

meh. bizzarely, the only denis bachelet wine i;ve ever enjoyed is the charmes vv in this vintage

1995 - very good vintage, still needs time, Roumier village Chambolle is hauntingly beautiful (haven't had any of their others but I believe Maureen that they're good too)

nice. bit blocky. the kind of vintage where people who drink bordeaux get to taste it young and say, "now that's what i call burgundy."

only not as fucked up as that implies.

1996 - I'm betting they'll all come around eventually

see 83, 72.

1997 - a few producers did well (Mugnier, Dujac, Rousseau, especially Gouges come to mind) but most are pretty disappointing

burgundy for cock-monkeys.

1998 - I like this vintage very much and many of them are drinking well now too. Thought it was mainly a Cote d'Or vintage at first but in the last few years I've had some great Volnays.

best in the villages that give you black rather than red fruits.

see 91.

1999 - letting mine sleep

see 85

2000 - one of my favorite vintages for current drinking

is good now. but in the way that some very ordinary chicks were hot for six months or so in their late teens; some thrills *are* time-limited, and you should enjoy them while you can.

2001 - letting mine sleep, re hail - avoid Volnay but not Savigny

cool fruit. good acid. fatboy likes. (i don't drink much volnay, but i did buy a few cases of lafarge bourgogne in 01, and its absence from the fatcave suggests there was more there than hail. i think.)

2002 - letting mine sleep

blocky. see 95.

roundhead pinot. i did not buy.

2003 - my original negative reaction has been tempered by a few impressive wines. Those few should be great down the line but I still think the vast majority are not my cup of tea.

i'm sure they can ripen pinot in the languedoc too.

2004 - haven't tried any since shortly after release. Between the people saying the green streak is getting worse (I'm not especially sensitive to it but if it gets very bad...) and other people saying it's an early drinking vintage I may try to pull some and check in

see 86. and 98. i like for its drinkability. and there's way less greenness where people are working with old vines.

2005 - holding for my retirement years

see 88. pour more wine down drain. feel cheated.'

decry the inconsistency of burgundy.

then marvel at last bottle.

think that if you were supposed to waste 11 bottles to get to the blah blah experience of the last one, you wouldn't have.

uh. and then decide that the great experience was worth it after all.

officially declare the new found consistency of burgundy.

rinse and repeat

2006 - only tried a few less expensive bottlings none of which thrilled me. I'm trying to redirect my wine expenditures towards some other areas that aren't as well represented in my cellar. It's hard. Brad has helped recently.

see 98 and 2000.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
my stick has been poked.

Mikhail !! I thought they took away the stick.

originally posted by Jay Miller:


1983 - the good ones are perfectly mature right now and drinking well

weird shit. some turned out nice. kinda nice even. but they still make you feel dirty. it's like your neice with the club foot growing up and turning out to be kinda sexy,

Mag of CSJ Fourier last year is about as good as I've ever had, excepting some Ponsot(s) over a decade ago. But given that this mag traveled a total 10 miles after resting in place of origin for a couple of decades, lets just say it does not count.

1985 - some are faded, some are gorgeous

i still have some of this shit. i'm a fucktard.

trust me. no matter what it is, it tasted better prior to july 88. it won't be horrible, at all, but it won't make you run away and join the circus like it used to when it was young and you wish you still were.

sometimes a puppy is only for christmas.

You know, I would have been in complete agreement until about a year ago? Something wonderfully cyclical is happening to them lately, pretty much the same thing that hit 85 brdx after a decade+ of the soft and cuddly puppy thing.

Re 88 - I was going to copy and paste your Jayer remark wrt 86, but was concerned about copyright violations.

89=f(97) ? Is it a linear function ? Invertible ?

1995 - very good vintage, still needs time, Roumier village Chambolle is hauntingly beautiful (haven't had any of their others but I believe Maureen that they're good too)

nice. bit blocky. the kind of vintage where people who drink bordeaux get to taste it young and say, "now that's what i call burgundy."

only not as fucked up as that implies.

Better and better every time I go back. Poised and resilient but no longer stubborn. Forget Roumier and d'Angerville, they were always great, but most recently Dourhin Griotte and M-G CV grabbed all the attention I could muster.

1996 - I'm betting they'll all come around eventually

see 83, 72.

Hey, I said 72 first. But a nice touch there with the 83.

2001 - letting mine sleep, re hail - avoid Volnay but not Savigny

cool fruit. good acid. fatboy likes. (i don't drink much volnay, but i did buy a few cases of lafarge bourgogne in 01, and its absence from the fatcave suggests there was more there than hail. i think.)

Weird - Lafarge AC is lighter but better than the VS in 01.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Scott Kraft:
Really focused stuff. Not luscious yet. But incredibly pure.

That exactly mirrors my bottle of Barthod Charmes.

I disagree with Jay, BTW.

2006: I like it. I haven't drank broadly, but what I've had, I've enjoyed. Precocious wines.

1997: Mugnier wines are a failure. I've had successful wines from other folks. Generally Gevrey or Nuits.

Totally agree on 2000.

The only 1997 Mugnier I've had is the Musigny and the bottles have ranged from very good to ethereally beautiful. It's been a few years though.

Gouges Vaucrains is still my WOTV.

I've since had a little more experience with 2006 and have been very happy with the vintage. If I had any place to do so I'd lay a few down.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
my stick has been poked.

1986 - very mixed for me

one of jayer's great vintages for finesse. wtf?

else see 83. but cute rather than sexy. at best.

One (of the many) problems with these sorts of vintage discussions is that everyone is speaking based on the wines they've tried. I've never had a 1986 Jayer.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:

I've since had a little more experience with 2006 and have been very happy with the vintage. If I had any place to do so I'd lay a few down.

Oh, yes; case in point: the Lignier-Michelot Chambolle Musigny VV (Becky Wasserman Selection, 13% alc.) that is in my glass right now. Utterly delightful; great balance of earth and fruit and CHARM. It might develop more over a few more years, but I doubt I own enough to find out.

Maureen, was this one you recommended to me?
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Jay Miller:

I've since had a little more experience with 2006 and have been very happy with the vintage. If I had any place to do so I'd lay a few down.

Oh, yes; case in point: the Lignier-Michelot Chambolle Musigny VV (Becky Wasserman Selection, 13% alc.) that is in my glass right now. Utterly delightful; great balance of earth and fruit and CHARM. It might develop more over a few more years, but I doubt I own enough to find out.

Maureen, was this one you recommended to me?

if you like it, I'll take credit!

as for all those with hate for the 1988s - did your palates get hijacked by arpy?
 
originally posted by Yixin:
Vintage generalisations. Gah.

About Burgundy, too. 'ucking 'ell, fatboy.

one of the mistakes I made at one point was NOT to generalize about 78 reds

if you know what I mean
 
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