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Huet 2002 wiki
- Thread starter SFJoe
- Start date
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by SFJoe:
This week, a 2002 LHL sec had light p'ox. Drinkable, but damaged. LHL demi was better, but a slight bit off.
OTOH, 1st release petillant is everything one would wish.
Anybody have any recent experience with the '02 Petillant "reserve"? I'd been assuming it was better to keep them buried in the cellar, but perhaps this is wrong?
Drink 'um up fast. -mark
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Question: Do we have enough evidence to chase this thing down?
If the wine was made badly then all the wine is bad, wherever it is, including wine at the domaine that has never been bottled. Is there some of that to taste?
If the bottling is at fault then all bottles are bad, wherever they are, including ones that never left the domaine. I'm sure there are some of those left to taste. If there were multiple batches of bottles and corks, well, the domaine presumably has invoices.
If the shipping is at fault then, if we have information about which bottles (that we own) came from which shipments, we can identify good and bad ones.
- No individual step is magical. There is data: dates, quantities, destinations, and so on. Just not enough of it in one place?
If the wine was made badly then all the wine is bad, wherever it is, including wine at the domaine that has never been bottled. Is there some of that to taste?
If the bottling is at fault then all bottles are bad, wherever they are, including ones that never left the domaine. I'm sure there are some of those left to taste. If there were multiple batches of bottles and corks, well, the domaine presumably has invoices.
If the shipping is at fault then, if we have information about which bottles (that we own) came from which shipments, we can identify good and bad ones.
- No individual step is magical. There is data: dates, quantities, destinations, and so on. Just not enough of it in one place?
Can't follow your syllogisms, Jeff.
The wine wasn't at fault, they were great young. And some of them still are.
How problems from the container and closure manifest could easily interact with shipping, from vibration to temperatures.
But I would love to hear from European consumers with well-stored bottles, or from the Domaine.
The wine wasn't at fault, they were great young. And some of them still are.
How problems from the container and closure manifest could easily interact with shipping, from vibration to temperatures.
But I would love to hear from European consumers with well-stored bottles, or from the Domaine.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by SFJoe:
or from the Domaine.
Let's ask what's-'er-name, she seems to like internet personalities who delve.
originally posted by SFJoe:
Can't follow your syllogisms, Jeff.
The wine wasn't at fault, they were great young. And some of them still are.
How problems from the container and closure manifest could easily interact with shipping, from vibration to temperatures.
But I would love to hear from European consumers with well-stored bottles, or from the Domaine.
I've heard from several sources that the domaine seems to feel it's a US problem and blames the former importer. I've seen reports of premox from European drinkers, though, so I'm not sure that opinion holds up.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Bingo. It's unbelievable that there is anyone who still thinks that shipping or storage could have anything to do with premox, when you can have premoxed bottles and pristine bottles in the same case.originally posted by SFJoe:
A domaine that thinks premox is someone else's fault?
Never heard that one before.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Question: Do we have enough evidence to chase this thing down?
If the wine was made badly then all the wine is bad, wherever it is, including wine at the domaine that has never been bottled. Is there some of that to taste?
If the bottling is at fault then all bottles are bad, wherever they are, including ones that never left the domaine. I'm sure there are some of those left to taste. If there were multiple batches of bottles and corks, well, the domaine presumably has invoices.
If the shipping is at fault then, if we have information about which bottles (that we own) came from which shipments, we can identify good and bad ones.
- No individual step is magical. There is data: dates, quantities, destinations, and so on. Just not enough of it in one place?
I don't think any of those assertions are correct.,
Wines are made in barrels, one barrel may be good while another is bad. There are enough examples of this from producers who bottled by barrel rather than blending to verify this.
Cork is inherently variable, I'm not so sure that bottles can't be either if there is a random roughness as part of the manufacturing process.
Shipping seems incredibly unlikely (see Keith's point above).
originally posted by SFJoe:
I'm sure shipping and storage could worsen the problem, but these wines were pristine on arrival and for years after.
Exactly and we were all pretty stunned by how long they stayed open accessible as the went away from the usual path of drinking well the first couple of years after release, before shutting down hard. These drank extremely well until they first started showing signs of premox in '09/'10.
Cork is inherently variable, I'm not so sure that bottles can't be either if there is a random roughness as part of the manufacturing process.
As I may have mentioned on earlier threads, all my 2002 LHL Sec was premoxed, but only a few of the 2002 Le Mont and LHL Demis have issues. Almost all the sec bottles had corks that were not a tight fit; they came out of the bottle far too easily.
U
Unknown
Guest
Joe, we've done plenty of cross-pond comparisons of Trimbach, as you know.
It's pretty clear shipment, distribution, storage, etc. do not create premox but, on average, accelerate its symptoms.
Not much data on Huet that way, as it's been in the spotlight only recently.
It's pretty clear shipment, distribution, storage, etc. do not create premox but, on average, accelerate its symptoms.
Not much data on Huet that way, as it's been in the spotlight only recently.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
OK, so the variables you'll allow are: barrels, corks, bottles.originally posted by Jay Miller:
Wines are made in barrels, one barrel may be good while another is bad. There are enough examples of this from producers who bottled by barrel rather than blending to verify this.
Cork is inherently variable, I'm not so sure that bottles can't be either if there is a random roughness as part of the manufacturing process.
Shipping seems incredibly unlikely (see Keith's point above).
Some domaines blend all the barrels before bottling, exactly to avoid such variation. Does Huet do that?
Corks too small, sez Mark E. Anybody got a good set of calipers?
Necks too rough, sez Jay. Interesting. Do we know anything about bottle manufacture or how the domaine buys its inventory? (We certainly know something about how the corks are made, why not the bottles....)
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by SFJoe:
[...]
OTOH, 1st release petillant is everything one would wish.
Same here last weekend.
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by SFJoe:
All your '02s?originally posted by Yixin:
Mine are fine, but the importer is fastidious.
The importer is so fastidious, he manages to avoid all corked bottles, too, I bet.
But of course.
originally posted by mark e:
Cork is inherently variable, I'm not so sure that bottles can't be either if there is a random roughness as part of the manufacturing process.
As I may have mentioned on earlier threads, all my 2002 LHL Sec was premoxed, but only a few of the 2002 Le Mont and LHL Demis have issues. Almost all the sec bottles had corks that were not a tight fit; they came out of the bottle far too easily.
I had problems with the demis myself.
My guess is that this is some sort of interaction between wine, closure, shipment and Obamacare.
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mark e:
Cork is inherently variable, I'm not so sure that bottles can't be either if there is a random roughness as part of the manufacturing process.
As I may have mentioned on earlier threads, all my 2002 LHL Sec was premoxed, but only a few of the 2002 Le Mont and LHL Demis have issues. Almost all the sec bottles had corks that were not a tight fit; they came out of the bottle far too easily.
I had problems with the demis myself.
My guess is that this is some sort of interaction between wine, closure, shipment and Obamacare.
Fwiw, I've mostly experienced it in the demis as that's largely what I've consumed. I've probably gone through 2-3 cases each of both the LM and LHL, from my own stash and others, and I'd say that since 2010 I'm running at about 75% showing various levels of premox. As I've tried more Sec and Petillant since then, though, I've seen it more and more in them as well, though I think the Reserve Petillant was a bit oxidative to begin with.