Sandlands, so far

Florida Jim

Florida Jim

Florida Jim
Admittedly, early in the life of any of these wines but I have now had the Mataro and the Trousseau and both appear to be archetypes of their varieties. Which may be saying as much as one can say of any wine.
Very well done.
Best, Jim
 
I had the Mataro and found it nice, but not striking. Perhaps with some bottle age. This is a project I am looking forward to following.
 
I tasted the lineup nearly two weeks ago.
I think the Trousseau is one of the best I've ever had, including the top Jura examples. Teagan also made a Chenin that was very good. Sadly, there's hardly any available.

I believe he told me there will be a fall release as well ...
 
Carignane last night - rustic, varietally correct, delicious but without any sense of place.
In the past, lacking a sense of place would have been a negative for me. But this is so accomplished I'm beginning to think I was misguided.
Really good wine.
Best, Jim
 
What place did you expect to find? Where are the vines?

And curious what you mean by "rustic." It's usually a euphemism when I say it, but I wonder what you see.
 
Joe,
Sense of place and rustic are both euphemisms (for me); loosely, rustic has to do with structure, mostly tannins and sense of place to do with aromas and flavors other than grape variety.
I also understand the narrow use of sense of place, eg., cranberry/rhubarb for Anderson Valley, Pinot.

But with these wines (so far) I sense no place elements - just very pure and accurate renditions of the variety.

I have, for a long time, thought that the highest and best use of wine grapes is their ability to reflect place. In making wine, I strive for that. But these wines are leading me to question the paradigm or, at least, enlarge it.
These wines are both accomplished and compelling but in a way that I had considered to be second tier - after tasting these, I think I was a bit too judgmental. These are really good.

Of course, this is a small sample and, being in the middle of CA wine country, I have likely been led to a somewhat less place-driven model. And who knows what getting older does to one's taste buds.
But everything else being equal, Sandlands has given me something to think about and some delicious wines to do it over.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
But with these wines (so far) I sense no place elements
Click to expand...

Just to throw in an empirical note to help me follow you:

a) Where are they from?

b) And you fail to find in them characteristics similar to other wines from their place not shared with other wines of their variety from a different place?

And, I guess:

c) What is a wine that doesn't taste like a place?
 
Jim, that is a most eloquent description of your thinking. My only concern: does anyone really have a sense of place for many CA locations, and is that sense of place independent of variety? Case in point: most every example of Carignan I've had has come from the Languedoc or perhaps Roussillon. The one CA example I had, from Porter Creek, was a nice wine but only vaguely reminiscent of the other examples. Was it devoid of a sense of place, or reflective of a place outside the boundaries of my experience? Fruit IMO can also reflect place. Just think about the different fruit character of Vosne-Romanee vs Chambolle, or Morgon vs. Brouilly

Not trying to be contrary here, but I'd like to hear your (and others') thoughts on this topic.

Mark Lipton
 
Comrade Brézème and I have had a discussion about the wines of Eric Pfifferling, which arguably don't reflect the terroir of Tavel, but are instead just tasty and juicy.

I hold that I don't care about the terroir of Tavel, having never drunk anything interesting from there, so am totally willing to see it sacrificed on the altar of deliciousness.
 
I wonder whether the concept of the winery necessarily leads to emphasizing variety and vine age over terroir. The winery is called "Sandlands" because the sites are primarily decomposed granite, which it categorizes as sand. I'm certainly not an expert, but I wouldn't expect sandy soils to impart a strong terroir signature. As many here know, their chief benefit in California is that you can sometimes plant own-rooted because the Phylloxera aphid doesn't do well in sand.

Tegan has become something of an old vineyard guru out here. Many of the oldest vineyards necessarily are in sandy soil because if they weren't, Phylloxera would have caused them to be replanted. (Phylloxera hit northern California later than France. The height of the crisis was in the 1880s and 1890s.)
 
I think of sandy soils as giving delicacy to wines. Plateau sites in Savennieres come to mind, as does Clos Rougeard's Poyeux. These are both aromatic and more delicate than clay or rocky sites nearby.

Places near the beach like Colares or the Do Ferreiro Albarino Cepas Vellas also come to mind, but I don't have the control groups to make them as interpretable.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think of sandy soils as giving delicacy to wines. Plateau sites in Savennieres come to mind, as does Clos Rougeard's Poyeux. These are both aromatic and more delicate than clay or rocky sites nearby.

Places near the beach like Colares or the Do Ferreiro Albarino Cepas Vellas also come to mind, but I don't have the control groups to make them as interpretable.
Click to expand...

Is it the sandy soil giving the wines delicacy, or the ungrafted root stock?
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think of sandy soils as giving delicacy to wines. Plateau sites in Savennieres come to mind, as does Clos Rougeard's Poyeux. These are both aromatic and more delicate than clay or rocky sites nearby.

Places near the beach like Colares or the Do Ferreiro Albarino Cepas Vellas also come to mind, but I don't have the control groups to make them as interpretable.
Click to expand...

Is it the sandy soil giving the wines delicacy, or the ungrafted root stock?
Click to expand...

I always assume it is the latter....
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think of sandy soils as giving delicacy to wines. Plateau sites in Savennieres come to mind, as does Clos Rougeard's Poyeux. These are both aromatic and more delicate than clay or rocky sites nearby.

Places near the beach like Colares or the Do Ferreiro Albarino Cepas Vellas also come to mind, but I don't have the control groups to make them as interpretable.
Click to expand...

Is it the sandy soil giving the wines delicacy, or the ungrafted root stock?
Click to expand...

I always assume it is the latter....
Click to expand...

Not in Savennieres or Saumur-Champigny, AFAIK.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
But with these wines (so far) I sense no place elements
Click to expand...

Just to throw in an empirical note to help me follow you:

a) Where are they from?

b) And you fail to find in them characteristics similar to other wines from their place not shared with other wines of their variety from a different place?

And, I guess:

c) What is a wine that doesn't taste like a place?
Click to expand...
Sharon,
The first two questions you ask arise from a definition of sense of place that is empirical; my comment using the term was not so intended, but rather as a general statement about wines that simply taste like the grapes they're made from.
The difference in those definitions is much of my point here; where I have felt that only wines that tasted not only of they're variety but also of their place were the ultimate expression of wine, I am now forced to admit that those that I sense only taste of they're variety are of equal quality. I would not have done that prior to tasting these wines.
Perhaps, the Sandlands wines really do have a sense of place and I am just missing it; perhaps, with age it will be more evident. But at this stage of their development, I'm not getting it.
And yet, they are quite wonderful; IMO, the equal to any wine of top quality.
As to your last question, well, I urge you to try these wines. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but at least you will get my drift.
Best, Jim
 
I think there is something to the kind of red winemaking that Ehren Jordan laid out that emphasizes structural elements in proper order rather than place signifiers. I can see the progression from Ehren to T. I think my tendency with both may be to say "really excellent red wine," rather than "I know where this is from". That being said, I have little knowledge of the terroir signatures that might accompany many of the regions Tegan is sourcing from. Then again, it may also be the case that the growers in those regions are also often ignorant of such markers.

These are just some thoughts. Tegan is my friend and I also like his wines a great deal.

I would also say that Tegan seems to try for lower alcohol at times than Ehren does. This may be related to his frequent use of ungrafted vines, which provide lower alcohol at times.

Also, the 2011 Sandlands Chenin is delish.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think of sandy soils as giving delicacy to wines. Plateau sites in Savennieres come to mind, as does Clos Rougeard's Poyeux. These are both aromatic and more delicate than clay or rocky sites nearby.
Click to expand...

Is delicate another way of saying varietal character, over minerality or earthiness? If so, I agree. I also often find that vine age and whether there's grafting are very important for delicacy.
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

Is delicate another way of saying varietal character, over minerality or earthiness?
Click to expand...

Oh, take Rene Mosse's Savennieres, for instance. If I am not mistaken, it's from a sandy site. You would never think it to be from limestone, say Vouvray, would you? It has its own local personality.

Does a good vintage of Poyeux strike you as simply varietal? Not me.
 
i should probably stay out of this, but... in the spirit of when in cali, do as teh calinistas do, i broached a jon bonné hipster favourite that had been much recommended by my angeleno friends with the second lard course last night.

as ever, i was full of hopeful expectation, and as ever, it tasted like wineshake. it didn't just lack a sense of place.

i will continue to kiss teh frogs, natch, but i will continue also to cast a jaundiced eye over these shitz.

fb.

(tesnière aunis 13, otoh, is wine.)
 
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