Eminent

originally posted by Rahsaan:
But even if you're talking about a basic tomato sauce and mozzarella pizza, you can get away with a fairly wide range of wines gustatorily. At least for my limited palate. I think the main reason people want to narrowcast pizza wines is their assumption that it is cheap and forgettable fast food.
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One of the great mysteries of popular culture in this country is how beer nailed down the pizza occasion. Ask many consumers "what beverage with pizza?", and they'll reply "beer". Reassemble more or less the same ingredients (dough, tomato sauce, cheese plus sausage, herbs, mushrooms, olives, whatever) into lasagna, linguini with sauce, cannelloni, etc. and they will say "wine".

My theory is that it's a Pavlovian association caused by years of exposure to our weird distribution system, wherein for much of the country it's harder for pizzerias to obtain a wine license or delivery than beer.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Here is a handy synopsis of some southern hemisphere researchers' conclusions on the subject.
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That's pretty good, thanks.

As with many discussions of winemaking, it kind of assumes the grapes, you know? And without any direct experience, I imagine viticulture to a pretty important variable in all that.

To wit, from their last paragraph: "Therefore, a modern approach to “multi-species” wine ferments backed by frontier science and rigorous research is essential to help winemakers achieve their primary objective of a better than 98% conversion of grape sugar to alcohol and carbon dioxide at a controlled rate and without the development of off-flavors."

That's one way to put it, I suppose, but it does imply a view that doesn't offer pride of place to secondary metabolites.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by fatboy:

what are the soils / typical exposures?
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Others who know better should chime in, but there is a lot of shale (the famous gaseous Marcellus). In some other spots limestone. Clay and such on top, in some places deep, in others shallow.

In other spots there is glacial mishmash that can be different every 10m.
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Sorry, I have been working two jobs lately. You have it right. Lots of shale. The further north you go the more limestone you tend to encounter. I have seen gravel sites as well. And mishmash. The only broad generalization I've found is shallow soil seems to make better wine. With deep soil the vines can be really vigorous.

Thank you Sharon for the kind words about the pinot!
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
You've never had certain wines with pizza before?
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...it is cheap and forgettable fast food.
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For the most part...yeah. I think I've had about 3-4 truly memorable pizzas in my life, and the memories mostly come from associations with being somewhere or celebrating something.

It's not academic.
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I have absolutely no idea what this cliche is supposed to mean!
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Don't over-analyze things!
 
originally posted by MarkS:

For the most part...yeah. I think I've had about 3-4 truly memorable pizzas in my life, and the memories mostly come from associations with being somewhere or celebrating something.
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So you're not a big pizza fan. I see.
 
Indeed. Maybe I'm too into the palate, but I often have 3-4 memorable somethings every week. And 3-4 memorable pizzas every few months.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):

One of the great mysteries of popular culture in this country is how the beer nailed down the pizza occasion. Ask many consumers "what beverage with pizza?", and they'll reply "beer". Reassemble more or less the same ingredients (dough, tomato sauce, cheese plus sausage, herbs, mushrooms, olives, whatever) into lasagna, linguini with sauce, cannelloni, etc. and they will say "wine".

My theory is that it's a Pavlovian association caused by years of exposure to our weird distribution system, wherein for much of the country it's harder for pizzerias to obtain a wine license or delivery than beer.
Click to expand...

Curiously my Italian friends (mostly northerners admittedly) almost always drink either beer or coca cola with pizza.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Indeed. Maybe I'm too into the palate, but I often have 3-4 memorable somethings every week. And 3-4 memorable pizzas every few months.
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same boat; in the last 30 days, I have had 4 memorable pizzas (Cotogna with Prevost blancs de noir & Pelican three grape red, Flour + Water (maybe the best of the lot) with Santa Chiara and Franny's (valentini cerasoulo) and 1 plenty good one (Chez Panisse cafe with JFG Chalasse Marnes Bleues).

never had a bottle of RC, so I can't comment re SFJoe's admonition, but i like something with a bit of tanginess to it with my pizza. (the Prevost was just because it was there at a good price and it seemed the right thing to go with our pastas before the pizzas.)
 
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):

One of the great mysteries of popular culture in this country is how the beer nailed down the pizza occasion. Ask many consumers "what beverage with pizza?", and they'll reply "beer". Reassemble more or less the same ingredients (dough, tomato sauce, cheese plus sausage, herbs, mushrooms, olives, whatever) into lasagna, linguini with sauce, cannelloni, etc. and they will say "wine".

My theory is that it's a Pavlovian association caused by years of exposure to our weird distribution system, wherein for much of the country it's harder for pizzerias to obtain a wine license or delivery than beer.
Click to expand...

Curiously my Italian friends (mostly northerners admittedly) almost always drink either beer or coca cola with pizza.
Click to expand...

Here or there? Indeed, I had good pizza and craft brew at Bir & Fud in Rome last time I was there. Not knowing Italian distribution structure, I don't know what that does to my theory.
 
Alas, the most memorable pizzas for me are the ones that burned my palate. :(

Recommending a wine for those pizzas is not doing the wine a favor (although burning the palate for those wines may be doing them a favor).
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):

One of the great mysteries of popular culture in this country is how the beer nailed down the pizza occasion. Ask many consumers "what beverage with pizza?", and they'll reply "beer". Reassemble more or less the same ingredients (dough, tomato sauce, cheese plus sausage, herbs, mushrooms, olives, whatever) into lasagna, linguini with sauce, cannelloni, etc. and they will say "wine".

My theory is that it's a Pavlovian association caused by years of exposure to our weird distribution system, wherein for much of the country it's harder for pizzerias to obtain a wine license or delivery than beer.
Click to expand...

Curiously my Italian friends (mostly northerners admittedly) almost always drink either beer or coca cola with pizza.
Click to expand...

Here or there? Indeed, I had good pizza and craft brew at Bir & Fud in Rome last time I was there. Not knowing Italian distribution structure, I don't know what that does to my theory.
Click to expand...

There, mostly in Milan.
 
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):

One of the great mysteries of popular culture in this country is how the beer nailed down the pizza occasion. Ask many consumers "what beverage with pizza?", and they'll reply "beer". Reassemble more or less the same ingredients (dough, tomato sauce, cheese plus sausage, herbs, mushrooms, olives, whatever) into lasagna, linguini with sauce, cannelloni, etc. and they will say "wine".

My theory is that it's a Pavlovian association caused by years of exposure to our weird distribution system, wherein for much of the country it's harder for pizzerias to obtain a wine license or delivery than beer.
Click to expand...

Curiously my Italian friends (mostly northerners admittedly) almost always drink either beer or coca cola with pizza.
Click to expand...

Here or there? Indeed, I had good pizza and craft brew at Bir & Fud in Rome last time I was there. Not knowing Italian distribution structure, I don't know what that does to my theory.
Click to expand...

There, mostly in Milan.
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In my experience most Italian pizzerias serve some wine, but almost everyone drinks beer. This was true recently in Naples, for example.
 
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