U
Unknown
Guest
2011 not ripe, many GCs picked under 12%
what was done to them varied widely
you probably meant 2010
what was done to them varied widely
you probably meant 2010
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Non spoofed 05 Bourgogne
- Thread starter BJ
- Start date
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
... you got me on 2011 (albeit I recall a pretty early harvest around end of August/beginning of September).
Where do you stand on this issue though ?
It would be interesting to know, sasha, which Domaines in Burgundy you think they spoofulate by chaptalizing either by my tentative definition above or using yours whatever that is.
Where do you stand on this issue though ?
It would be interesting to know, sasha, which Domaines in Burgundy you think they spoofulate by chaptalizing either by my tentative definition above or using yours whatever that is.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
originally posted by Yixin:
Easier to ask which domaines do not chaptalise.
In light of global warming, which ones are thinking about it (while they do it) as opposed to simply following "traditional" methods?
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
Filippo Mattia Ginanni
originally posted by Yixin:
Easier to ask which domaines do not chaptalise.
Good question.
Let's see!
U
Unknown
Guest
FMG -
What Yixin said. Really.
It's just crazy to me that everyone would chaptalise in 2010, even if it was 0.3g as claimed, but I am hard pressed to think of any cellars outside of Remi Rollin and Chandon de Briailles where I've consistently tasted what I consider to be unadulterated pinot. There were isolated exceptions, e.g. it felt like the Bourgogne at Camus-Bruchon was pure while everything else was boosted, and then of course there were many beautifully crafted wines (like most of Drouhin reds) which I am happy to have on any occasion but which I thought tasted of masterfully executed extended fermentation.
What gets me in this regard is all the talk of cyclical burgundies, closed down wines and everyone's personal version of the fatsink. Yeah, there is that, but I often feel like we make excuses for wines which have been fucked with, at various stages of their evolution, while all the interference is running in the forefront. In Bordeaux as well, not only Burgundy. When was the last time one of your cab francs from the usual suspects, no matter how closed, was actually out of balance enough to pour out?
Back to 2010, which is such a vivid example. Recently had chapelle 1er from lafouge at a restaurant. What the fuck. I am sure prime time shall come (too much good material and craft), but why oh why does it need to be so freaking overfruitedly sweet now that I can't even have it with my venison? Winemaking throws this potentially great shit out of balance. Wrong time to open this wine? Yeah, but that's besides the point; go waste a bottle of Rollin village 2010 and you'll see what I mean.
What Yixin said. Really.
It's just crazy to me that everyone would chaptalise in 2010, even if it was 0.3g as claimed, but I am hard pressed to think of any cellars outside of Remi Rollin and Chandon de Briailles where I've consistently tasted what I consider to be unadulterated pinot. There were isolated exceptions, e.g. it felt like the Bourgogne at Camus-Bruchon was pure while everything else was boosted, and then of course there were many beautifully crafted wines (like most of Drouhin reds) which I am happy to have on any occasion but which I thought tasted of masterfully executed extended fermentation.
What gets me in this regard is all the talk of cyclical burgundies, closed down wines and everyone's personal version of the fatsink. Yeah, there is that, but I often feel like we make excuses for wines which have been fucked with, at various stages of their evolution, while all the interference is running in the forefront. In Bordeaux as well, not only Burgundy. When was the last time one of your cab francs from the usual suspects, no matter how closed, was actually out of balance enough to pour out?
Back to 2010, which is such a vivid example. Recently had chapelle 1er from lafouge at a restaurant. What the fuck. I am sure prime time shall come (too much good material and craft), but why oh why does it need to be so freaking overfruitedly sweet now that I can't even have it with my venison? Winemaking throws this potentially great shit out of balance. Wrong time to open this wine? Yeah, but that's besides the point; go waste a bottle of Rollin village 2010 and you'll see what I mean.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Why eat venison when you can drink 2001 Chevillon Cailles? Much more eco-friendly.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Had the '10 Rollin Ile the other day and was wowed. Didn't know he is a non-chaptilizer, but it makes sense - the wine has such a delicate superstructure.
Michael Lewis
Michael Lewis
I already drank all my 2010 Rollin PV and SLB. I just could not stop. Fortunately, I have managed not to touch the 1er Crus.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
I already drank all my 2010 Rollin PV and SLB. I just could not stop. Fortunately, I have managed not to touch the 1er Crus.
where does that leave your HCDB?
Michael Lewis
Michael Lewis
That stuff is basically allocated these days. Retailers make you buy six bottles of DRC in order to get one bottle of Rollin HCDB.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
That stuff is basically allocated these days. Retailers make you buy six bottles of DRC in order to get one bottle of Rollin HCDB.
Correct. Just making sure that you've at least tried.
HCDB '10 was shockingly good in September. And yet in no way, shape or form ahead of schedule. Q.E.D.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
originally posted by .sasha:
FMG -
It's just crazy to me that everyone would chaptalise in 2010, even if it was 0.3g as claimed, but I am hard pressed to think of any cellars outside of Remi Rollin and Chandon de Briailles where I've consistently tasted what I consider to be unadulterated pinot.
Why do you think Rollin didn't chaptalize in 2010?
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by .sasha:
FMG -
It's just crazy to me that everyone would chaptalise in 2010, even if it was 0.3g as claimed, but I am hard pressed to think of any cellars outside of Remi Rollin and Chandon de Briailles where I've consistently tasted what I consider to be unadulterated pinot.
Why do you think Rollin didn't chaptalize in 2010?
I don't.
Just going by what's in my glass and searching for answers, and no longer taking most(*) claims at face value in burgundy.
(*) there are exceptions
Michael Lewis
Michael Lewis
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by .sasha:
FMG -
It's just crazy to me that everyone would chaptalise in 2010, even if it was 0.3g as claimed, but I am hard pressed to think of any cellars outside of Remi Rollin and Chandon de Briailles where I've consistently tasted what I consider to be unadulterated pinot.
Why do you think Rollin didn't chaptalize in 2010?
Are you saying that Rollin did chaptalize? I'm a noob - just tell it to me straight.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Left a good job in the city
Workin' for the man ev'ry night and day
And I never lost one minute of sleepin'
Worryin' 'bout the way things might have been
Big wheel keep on turnin'
Proud Mary keep on burnin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin' on the river
Workin' for the man ev'ry night and day
And I never lost one minute of sleepin'
Worryin' 'bout the way things might have been
Big wheel keep on turnin'
Proud Mary keep on burnin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin' on the river
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Rollin in the glass.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I tasted there this morning and asked and was told that they did chaptalize.originally posted by Michael Lewis:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by .sasha:
FMG -
It's just crazy to me that everyone would chaptalise in 2010, even if it was 0.3g as claimed, but I am hard pressed to think of any cellars outside of Remi Rollin and Chandon de Briailles where I've consistently tasted what I consider to be unadulterated pinot.
Why do you think Rollin didn't chaptalize in 2010?
Are you saying that Rollin did chaptalize? I'm a noob - just tell it to me straight.
The discussions here about chaptalization just strike me as strange and not understanding at all the view of quality producers toward chaptalization (which is not to deny that I have run into some overchaptalized 2013s, but that's a different story). Some of the comments here remind me of John Wetlaufer talking about Burgundy.
The truth is, I can't think of anyone in Burgundy who systematically refuses to chaptalize, although I would not be surprised that there are a few producers who won't do it under any circumstances -- there are exceptions in every other way. But even Hubert de Montille, who aimed at only 12º for his wines and so was the poster child for low(er) alcohol Burgundies, would chaptalize if the grapes had potential alcohols below that level.
Michael Lewis
Michael Lewis
Thanks Claude. Did you ask which wines specifically were chaptalized?