XP: Anybody interested in 20 best drummers?

Assembling a list of the 20 top drummers is not unlike assembling a list of the 20 top wines made from Cabernet Sauvignon - a moving target at best, and subject to one's mood, knowledge, and predilection (or all of the above). Add the immediate moment's context and a top-20 list would be fleeting, subject to revision from moment to moment.

That being said, I can whinge a bit about this drummer rollcall but overall, it does a good job of covering the genres most likely to be listened to by the readers of LA Weekly. If it were MY top 20, Jim Keltner, Billy Higgins, Bernard Purdie, and Hal Blaine would be on it, replacing the stickmen toiling in music I don't listen to a lot.

originally posted by MLipton:
I'd take Bruford and Ginger Baker over half the entries on that list. At least they got Max Roach. But where the hell is Mongo Santamaria on that list? Are congas no longer drums?

Mark Lipton
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Agree with you on Mr. Baker, but Bruford (like Peart) sounds more like a technician than a musician most of the time. I appreciate and understand his talent, but I don't tend to enjoy listening to it more than once. Buddy Rich is in the same boat for me, but Louis Bellson had similar technique but swung harder than Buddy (but was nowhere near as influenctial as Mr. Rich. And Mongo? Hand-drums don't count on these sorts of list. Too ephemeral and anyone can play a tambourine or shaker, right? Dom Um Rom and Airto would get my vote (what is it about Brazilian percussionists?)

originally posted by Lou Kessler:
Wrong
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Ringo, and Omar Hakim, are missing from the list.
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You're confused,Ringo is the worlds richest but terrible drummer.
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Wrong-o, baybee! Ringo is the Thierry Alemand of the drums, doing one thing really well and consistently, showing a purity of style that should be understood by anyone else pursuing mastery of the drums (or Cornas). Ringo is not flashy, but he's as solid as the rock of Gibraltar, playing the groove, supporting the other players in the band, and establishing the feel for what's going on around him. Old school for sure (Charlie Watts also springs readily to mind in this category, his approach diverging slightly from Ringo's due to a heavier jazz influence). It's a very band-oriented musical approach to the instrument.

-Eden (check out Matt Wilson if you want to listen to a drummer playing with style, sensitivity, and creativity, one tying together many influences to arrive at his own sound)
 
E, I'm glad to see someone defend Ringo Starr.

I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to judge Ringo's talent; however, what he accomplished along with the other Beatles speaks volumes as to his value, especially considering that the drummer is often cited as a most key ingredient of any successful musical group.

. . . . Pete
 
I am still operating under the theory that Pete is actually Chris Coad, or maybe fatboy.

Yes, the list is awful. You could add a million jazz drummers. Billy Kreutzman tears it up on the newly released DP13, btw.
 
originally posted by John Roberts:
I am still operating under the theory that Pete is actually Chris Coad, or maybe fatboy.

Yes, the list is awful. You could add a million jazz drummers. Billy Kreutzman tears it up on the newly released DP13, btw.
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I have repeatedly put forth the fatboy theory and I've never been convinced otherwise.

The list may be awful, but Tony Williams was great - and belongs on the list.

My two cents on the missing names: Paul Motion.
 
Gets little love outside the nerds, but Ed Blackwell.
Other than that, what a dumb premise for anything meaningful other than for people like me to feel the need to mention their favorite non-inclusion.
 
originally posted by Brian C:
Gets little love outside the nerds, but Ed Blackwell.
Other than that, what a dumb premise for anything meaningful other than for people like me to feel the need to mention their favorite non-inclusion.
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If you get a few more people to check out Blackwell, that's something.
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
(check out Matt Wilson if you want to listen to a drummer playing with style, sensitivity, and creativity, one tying together many influences to arrive at his own sound)
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Matt Wilson will be here next month for a free concert with guest John Medeski. We get a lot of good (and often free) jazz concerts out here in the sticks. One of which featured Dafnis Prieto with his quartet. Wouldn't put him in the top 20 all time, but damn!
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by John Roberts:
I am still operating under the theory that Pete is actually Chris Coad, or maybe fatboy.

Yes, the list is awful. You could add a million jazz drummers. Billy Kreutzman tears it up on the newly released DP13, btw.
Click to expand...

I have repeatedly put forth the fatboy theory and I've never been convinced otherwise.

The list may be awful, but Tony Williams was great - and belongs on the list.

My two cents on the missing names: Paul Motion.
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Motian.
 
originally posted by John Roberts:

Famoudou Don Moye
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Yes! I miss the AEC. However, one show where he totally blew me away was with the New York Organ Ensemble at Yoshi's in 1995. Moye, Lester Bowie, Amina Claudine Myers, James Carter, and Frank Lacy.

Ya know, when it comes to rock drummers in the 60s, everyone talks about Moon, Baker, and Bonham. How come Mitch Mitchell is never mentioned? Some of the jazz drumming he does with Hendrix is amazing.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by John Roberts:
I am still operating under the theory that Pete is actually Chris Coad, or maybe fatboy.

Yes, the list is awful. You could add a million jazz drummers. Billy Kreutzman tears it up on the newly released DP13, btw.
Click to expand...

I have repeatedly put forth the fatboy theory and I've never been convinced otherwise.

The list may be awful, but Tony Williams was great - and belongs on the list.

My two cents on the missing names: Paul Motion.
Click to expand...

Motian.
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'course. I knew that. Glad I didn't write pallet instead of palate. thanks
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
Ya know, when it comes to rock drummers in the 60s, everyone talks about Moon, Baker, and Bonham. How come Mitch Mitchell is never mentioned? Some of the jazz drumming he does with Hendrix is amazing.
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Yup, Moon, Baker and Bonham won the proverbial battle for power, while finer (imho) drummers like Jon Hiseman and Cosy Powell have been forgotten.
 
Too patriotic if I say Edward Vesala? Blakey is always fun. A kind of arseholey nomination but Cecil Taylor might be my alltime favourite.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
originally posted by John Roberts:

Famoudou Don Moye
Click to expand...

Yes! I miss the AEC. However, one show where he totally blew me away was with the New York Organ Ensemble at Yoshi's in 1995. Moye, Lester Bowie, Amina Claudine Myers, James Carter, and Frank Lacy.
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Wow. And I love Amina Claudine Myers. "Salutes Bessie Smith" is a stunning album and a total, underrated classic.
 
Now that's funny. I'm not sure if it was his '95 or '98 multi-night run at Yoshi's. I attended shows during both of those. After one of those runs, the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand that was on loan was deemed beyond repair. That info came from a friend who worked at the club during those years.

Cecil hasn't played in the Bay Area since 2008.
 
This far down and still no mention of Kenny Clarke, who created dual time-signatures, participated in the development of energy drumming, and had a vital role in the development of bebop (as well as being the MJQ's drummer in its early years); and Jonathan "Jo" Jones, who brought in energy drumming?

Many names mentioned by others above are highly worthy as well as still others not mentioned like Louis Hayes and Sonny Greer (check out some of those Ellington sides from the '20s and '30s), but I've always thought it came down to the final four of Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, Max Roach, and Art Blakey.

With time, Elvin doesn't seem quite as impressive to me as he did in the 1960s, and indeed if you search youtube, there are a few sets of a drum battle among Elvin, Max, and Blakey, in which I thought Blakey comes out first and Elvin a rather disappointing last. So for me, a no. 4 for Elvin.

Tony Williams could be amazing, but there just isn't the depth and breadth to his total work. His best years were with Miles, and then . . . ? No. 3.

Max made drums into a solo instrument (and yet, it's amazing how many horrible drum solos there are out there (from others, of course); or maybe I should say how few are even acceptable, much less well-thought out). Just listen to Max's solos at the Massey Hall Concert, with Bud Powell (the various takes of Night in Tunisia), or on the various Brown-Roach Quintet recordings. When he died, his obituary was on the front page of the NY Times -- amazing. The only other drummer who even has a chance of making the front page of the Times for an obituary is Ringo, and notwithstanding what Eden says, it won't be because of his drum talents if he does. Re: Cecil Taylor, there's a fascinating 2-CD album of Max and Cecil improvising together at a concert at Columbia University. (Also, another one of Max and Diz improvising together in Paris).

As for Blakey, check out on youtube the 1958 and 1959 Paris concerts, especially the renditions of Night in Tunisia. It doesn't get more exciting than that. (Oh, and he had managed to spot some "acceptable" talent to fill out those bands.) Blakey also had various amazing drum solo albums (Max had some good ones, too). A black mark that doesn't affect his drumming was his encouragement of his players to use smack. Lee Morgan, especially, wound up being totally fucked by it.

So in the end, it comes out as a tie for me between Max, for his intelligence and elegance, and Blakey for his energy and excitement (although you also can't ignore the energy and excitement for Max and the intelligence, and even at times the elegance, of Blakey).

BTW, anyone else a fan of Evelyn Glennie, the deaf drummer/percussionist, who plays mostly, but not exclusively, with classical orchestras?
 
A friend in my tasting group managed to book Max Roach to a full length solo concert at our local college years ago. Said he spent about 15 minutes just working the high hat.
 
The Max Roach solo concert description reminds me of seeing the Barry Harris trio back in the mid-90s. Billy Higgins played the entire show with only a snare drum and a ride cymbal. Minimalistic indeed, but plenty for the gig and eye-opening to someone (moi) who previously was impressed with drummers pounding on massive drum kits used by the likes of Carl Palmer or Ed Shaughnessy. That's when it dawned on me that wine is similar to music, in that one's appreciation of subtlety and nuance increases the more you're exposed to bombast.

FWIW, Mitch Mitchell sat in with a blues band I was working with for a couple of songs quite a few years ago. His jazz approach to rock was legendary, but his time was er, a little loose and open to interpretation. However, his tendency to drag through the choruses and to squeeze drum fills into any possible breathing space in the song, much less a lack of awareness and adherence to the band's general time perception were not among our concerns at that moment because we were playing with MITCH FUCKING MITCHELL and he'd played with Hendrix and we were the idols of all the other bands on the bill because he sat in with us (that sort of shit was important back then).

-Eden (it's like drinking a just barely, slightly corked bottle of 1985 Jayer Echezeaux -- you work around it but at least you were a contender with a bottle that coulda/shoulda been great)
 
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