Rotem Mounir Saouma Magis CNdP Blanc '11

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Both galet and caillou might be translated as either pebble or stone depending on the size of the pebble or stone in question. I have heard both words refer to pebbles or stones somewhat larger than baseballs, although its true that in concept a galet is bigger than a caillou.
Click to expand...
I'm feeling very specific this morning: if it's the size of a hazelnut it's a pebble; if it's the size of an orange it's a stone; if it's the size of a walnut well that's bigger than "pebble" in my book but I could see some wiggle room. How do galet and caillou shake out on my food-size chart?
Click to expand...

If you look them up in a French/ English dictionary, you will find that both words can be translated as either pebble or stone, depending on how large the thingy in question is. If there is a difference between the two words it is that galets are more polished or worn since the word also designates shingles on beaches.
 
Galets can be big or small, but they are always rounded by erosion/friction in water beds or under glaciers.

Pierre or caillou would be the generic word for stone, I think.
 
Pierre is the generic word for rock or stone of any size. A caillou is a smaller rock or stone. It can't be a boulder, but it could be larger than a pebble. Really the different French designations just don't match up with the English ones on a one-to-one basis.
 
originally posted by Brézème:

the well known tandem lees/sulfur that gives the "typical" hazelnut "grillé", that a lot of people consider to be the sign of high quality terroir chardonnay from Cote d'Or.

Considered as gross and faulty not long ago (80's) by traditionnal and knowledgeable growers.
Like bacon fat in northern rhone syrah...
Click to expand...

I'll take the bait, Comrade. Are you saying that bacon fat in northern Rhone syrah was traditionally viewed as gross and faulty? Can you expand on this a little? I'm not disputing it, since you know more traditional and lnowledgeable growers better than I do, but I've found bacon in Cote Rotie (though more in Cote Brune than Cote Blonde for some reason) in particular to be most common in wines from the 80's and early 90's from traditional producers (at least fairly traditional at the time, including Gentaz, Dervieux-Thaize, Jamet, Ogier between '83 and around '97, and from Cornas in Verset, Clape, and Juge). I've seen it attributed to brett, but I'm not a chemist or enologist, so I defer to the more knowledgeable to judge that claim.
 
In good quality wine from Syrah, from many different vineyard sources, it's common to find a smoky, and often porky aromatic trait. (Without, I might add, the influence of oak) I think the term bacon-fat is a bit misleading, though.
 
I still have to read a description of northern rhone syrah pre-RP that mentions bacon fat.
We probably have a different definition of bacon fat, since I have never tasted anything like this in either Gentaz, Dervieux Theize, Verset or Juge...
And I think I have had my share of these, over 25 years of buying them each year.

What I call bacon fat and that I find on modern Northern Rhône wines, has always showed up on Southern France syrah and is very often referred as "Empyreumatique" in the pre-war wine appreciation literature and almost always seen as from terroir "de petite origique ou de cru paysan" (Jullien 1850) in Northern France wines (Pinot, Cab Franc or Syrah).

Northern Rhone Syrah aromas are usually described as floraux (Violette, Aubépine) boisés (Camphre); mineraux (graphite, salin) animaux (cuir), épicés (poivre), but again no sign of bacon.

The rare literature mentioning syrah in the south uses empyreumatique (fumée) in conjunction with description of extremely hot climate for syrah and very high ripeness of grapes.

The main descriptor of the highest quality of syrah wines from Côte Rotie, Hermitage or Cornas is ALWAYS Violette and this in all the 6 books that I owe that describe Northern Rhone wines between 1815 and 1980 (Jullien, Ramain, Delorme,...).
In his very interesting Kermit's Adventures on the Wine Route interview, Gérard Chave NEVER uses the word bacon to describe his wines. I have never heard any of the historical growers like Gentaz, Trollat or Juge using it except to describe modern style oaky wines.
Juge, in 2001 or 2002, about a young grower who now rents some of his vineyards : "son vin sent le barbecue tellement il utilise de fûts neufs!"

So fuck bacon fat!
Vive la Violette!
 
Ah yes, but as we know from the vulgar monkey, no one north of the US Mason Dixon line knows what real bacon is. Parker was no doubt referencing the mysterious smell of real bacon, which the poor French, who only know their own lardon, would not possibly recognize.
 
originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
Yixin, are you connecting bacon to stems?
Click to expand...
pig1.jpg
Mark Lipton
 
Steve, yes. Whole bunch, over-ripe Syrah must smells like bacon to me. And it doesn't have to be a lot - even 10/20% seems to have that effect!
 
In the fall of '93, with the Syrah from the old block at Durell (planted only in 1979, on AXR1) we de-stemmed, and at a certain point I went out to get a bottle of water, and when I came back 6 or 7 minutes later, the entire winery building smelled like ham! Fresh, just-destemmed must! No fermentation, no oak, just the grapes!
 
originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
In the fall of '93, with the Syrah from the old block at Durell (planted only in 1979, on AXR1) we de-stemmed, and at a certain point I went out to get a bottle of water, and when I came back 6 or 7 minutes later, the entire winery building smelled like ham! Fresh, just-destemmed must! No fermentation, no oak, just the grapes!
Click to expand...

hear, hear!

maybe one man's bacon/ham is another man's raw meat, but i find this sort of thing in, for instance, verset cornas or arnot roberts. to me it is an expression of syrah. and not high alcohol syrah. a grape of many facets.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top