Velcorin

K

Ken Schramm

Ken Schramm
At the risk of setting off a new round of rants...

The meadery has gone well, so far. I've tried hard to rely on skill, ingredients and good sanitation to avoid spoofing. No enzymes, no filtration, we are sans soufre, and we avoid fining if at all possible. Mead production differs from grape wine production in that relying on ambient yeasts is virtually impossible, so pitching is as much the norm in meadmaking as in brewing (I never heard what Joe or the Politburo thought about brewing practices - other than the Lambic guys and a few of their adherents stateside, brewers pitch all the time). We do a cyser (apple mead) spontaneously, just cider, honey and time, and the customers liked it. The use of Fermaid O and a nitrogen source are also pretty much necessities on other meads, though.

So, now here comes Velcorin. I'm not suggesting that we we are ever going to use it, but I am curious to hear from those who do use sulfites what they think.
 
Ken,
No chemist I but here's what I know.
It is a deadly toxin with a very brief half life. It breaks down into CO2 and methanol (in amounts well below allowable limits).
Prior to breaking down it is effective against yeast and certain bacteria up to certain populations. If yeast or those certain bacteria exist in populations greater than its effective threshold, it knocks them back - at least, for the moment.
There are certain bacteria it is not effective against.
It is used in virtually every fruit juice and bottled water available in the US.
It must be handled by a licensed operator, requires particular dosing equipment and is about the same price per bottle as cross-flow filtration.
It is used by the majority of wineries I am familiar with.
Best, Jim
 
Ken, a previous discussion of this topic, complete with useful insights from Dr. SFJoe, can be found here.

Mark Lipton

p.s The much-maligned search function was used in the making of this post.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Plus ça change...Ken, a previous discussion of this topic, complete with useful insights from Dr. SFJoe, can be found here.

Mark Lipton

p.s The much-maligned search function was used in the making of this post.
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(head slap) Thanks, Mark. Great thread.
 
In France, not allowed for any organic wine or if the wine has less than 5 g/l of residual sugar. If used over this limit, allowed only at bottling with certificate showing that hydrolysis is complete.

Why should I swallow this shit?
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
It is used by the majority of wineries I am familiar with.
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Which type of wineries? I'm surprised at this because I haven't myself personally encountered a winery that uses it, and I haven't heard of a small-scale winery - meaning case production under 20,000/vintage and generally unavailable in grocery stores - (other than a few cult cab type labels over in Napa) that cops to its use.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
In France, not allowed for any organic wine or if the wine has less than 5 g/l of residual sugar. If used over this limit, allowed only at bottling with certificate showing that hydrolysis is complete.

Why should I swallow this shit?
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My thoughts exactly, Eric.
 
originally posted by Michael K.:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
It is used by the majority of wineries I am familiar with.
Click to expand...

Which type of wineries? I'm surprised at this because I haven't myself personally encountered a winery that uses it, and I haven't heard of a small-scale winery - meaning case production under 20,000/vintage and generally unavailable in grocery stores - (other than a few cult cab type labels over in Napa) that cops to its use
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The final five words in that sentence are kind of important to this discussion.

As Florida Jim mentioned above, Velcorin needs to be administered by special ops using their own equipment, making it easy for it to steal away silently into the night after use, leaving no evidence of its existence at the winery or bottling line. IIRC, the CIA refers to this as "plausible deniability." I too have seen it used by smaller wineries you wouldn't think would use any process even hinting at spoofilization. The rationale is that this is a non-invasive type of insurance against one's unfiltered/unfined wine turning into a science project and rendering it unsaleable.

-Eden (what I don't know won't hurt me)
 
Would you all mind if I post a few TNs here? All the other threads are getting filled up.

1998 Taluau, St-Nicolas-de-Bourgueil Vieilles Vignes has come around beautifully and is downright supple. Drank many of these way too young. Beautiful cabernet franc. Drink and hold.

2010 Chateau La Rame, Sainte-Croix-du-Mont: This is sweet Bordeaux blanc. A little too sweet for me though. Lovely nose, honied and pollen but heavy in the mouth. Good with cheese and holding up like a champ in the fridge.
 
Sure, Kay. I'll join you:

Marechal 2001 Chorey-les-Beaunes - Tight and weird for the first half-hour, which made me nervous about whether there was damage; but it has redeemed itself: nose of black cherry and faintest green herb (spearmint? thyme?) and faintest antiseptic, palate tingly and the tannins are playing peek-a-boo with crisp, sweet fruit; so glad I bought this.
 
Chateau Musar Jeune 2011 Rouge - Blackberry, some plum skin, and more Bordelais in nature than I expected given the varieties. Enough acidity to make my wife curl her lip a bit. Tasty, curious (?), or maybe "gawky" is the best word. Very good if not better (more expressive) on day two. I want to see what this will be like in 10 years. Like it has a good story to tell, but it's still working on phrasing and vocabulary.
 
2013 Fattoria Moretto Lambrusco Monovitigno Grasparossa di Castelvetro. Like a hike in the northwoods on a mild summer day and all the wild berries are at their peak of ripeness, and plentiful, and you have nowhere to be. A wee fizz that mostly dissipates after the pour and not a hint of sweetness other than the perception of sweet, ripe berries. Fresh and superbly balanced. Walks the line between complexity and poundability. Practically demands food even if its just some good bread and a mortadella chub. This bottle was consumed posthaste with a Supino pizza, farinata, and meatballs.
 
2013 François Cazin Cheverny Blanc. Romorantin be damned, the clay-chalk soils of the area call out for Sauvignon Blanc and Chardonnay! One of our consistent best-sellers from Cazin, and this vintage is the finest since 2012. Supple, with a jolt of acidity, everything's in place with this wine. Terrific value.
 
Who's drinking Oregon pinot? 2009 Evesham Wood Illahe Vineyard pinot noir has just a bit of cola spice, pretty mineral flavors and an overall lovely personality. With steak and mushrooms. Really surprised there was any left the next day. Day three it is heading towards iron which makes me think it is one of those pinots that will shut down hard and then come back again a decade later as the most elegant thing in the world. But of course by then it will be the last bottle.
 
Showing the vintage but the sour cherry, minerality is swoon worthy. I've a couple left and won't open for several years.
Some pompous ass on FB chastised me for NOT drink my Bourgogne 05's On release. Not just bachelet either.
 
originally posted by Kay Bixler:
Who's drinking Oregon pinot?
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Me, me! Winderlea 2012 Maresh was terrifically complex, woodsy, dense and long last week whereas their estate bottling was good but at the other end of the spectrum, all slightly floral red fruits, tangy and light.

Also some very fine Oregon Chardonnays coming out now, in particular Winderlea's 2012 estate, Cornerstone's 2012 Willamette and Knudsen's 2013 estate. The first two would not be out of place dropped into a Meursault tasting, while the latter reminded me a cross between true Sonoma Coast and a top-flight Pouilly-Fuissé.

But of course by then it will be the last bottle.
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Sadly and often true.
 
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