Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Excellent input, Victor, thank you.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Still no geek appeal
- Thread starter VS
- Start date
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I have found the wines of Goyo Garcia Viadero in Ribera interesting. I'm surprised they wouldn't make such a list as yours, Victor.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Yes - I had the 2009 Valdeolmos and it was staggeringly beautiful.originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have found the wines of Goyo Garcia Viadero in Ribera interesting. I'm surprised they wouldn't make such a list as yours, Victor.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Thanks for the fabulous amount of info, Victor. I am going to come back to your post.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by VS:
Terroir al Lìmit
I love these wines, but why are they obscenely expensive?
Thanks for the post and the great list Victor. Here's what happened the last time I got the locals together for a Spanish wine jeebus: NEVER DO WHAT WE HAVE DONE THIS NIGHT
It's been almost ten years since that dinner. Might be time to try and rally the troops again.
It's been almost ten years since that dinner. Might be time to try and rally the troops again.
Kay Bixler
Kay Bixler
"Where the hell's the TCA when you need it?"
Thanks for the link, Brad. I wish Chris was still with us . . . his legacy will have to suffice.
Thanks for the link, Brad. I wish Chris was still with us . . . his legacy will have to suffice.
Saina Nieminen
Saina Nieminen
We can't get much good wine here, but I was recently surprised by a very attractive Spanish white - one made by a pretty big company IIRC so no geek points to this one: Raventos i Blanc Silencis 2013. It's a still Xarel.lo and it seems like it sees ageing on lees and that it has fairly high acidity, both of which makes it transcend its inherent neutrality into something genuinely interesting.
Lots of good producers were left out, I'm sure - no ambition to be comprehensive! Love Goyo's wines, very delicate, but I'm a bit miffed by the steep pricing, and I haven't tasted anything more recent than 2009. We're tasting two 2010s, Valdeolmos and Viñas de Arcilla, next week at elmundovino.originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have found the wines of Goyo Garcia Viadero in Ribera interesting. I'm surprised they wouldn't make such a list as yours, Victor.
Good question. Because they make very little of each of their top vineyards, and it's very difficult viticulture, and... they get the high ratings. But they make a number of wines, and their Torroja Vi de Vila, around $35 in NY, is a very good introduction.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I love these wines, but why are they obscenely expensive?originally posted by VS:
Terroir al Lìmit
Worst Spanish wine selection ever, Brad? I stare at those names, and I'd even forgotten some of them ever existed... You've had better stuff with us... in Madrid!originally posted by Brad Kane:
Might be time to try and rally the troops again.
As many of us here in Spain, they needed experience. Gredos had been forgotten for 200 years, everyone started from scratch. Marc Isart has learned to tone his act down, use far less new oak, and has steadily improved. The 2012 reds are very good.originally posted by MarkS:
I haven't been convinced by Bernabeleva yet. Just too...modern and big.
Actually Raventòs i Blanc does get some geek points if only because they had the guts to leave the Cava appellation in protest for the policy of low prices, low quality. But we didn't find the 2013 Silencis nearly as good as the 2012. Best still xarel.los we've tasted lately, Can Ràfols dels Caus' 2008 Xarel.lo Pairal, Gramona's 2013 Roent and Pardas' 2011 Aspriu.originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Raventos i Blanc Silencis 2013.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
[/quote]originally posted by VS:
Lots of good producers were left out, I'm sure - no ambition to be comprehensive! Love Goyo's wines, very delicate, but I'm a bit miffed by the steep pricing, and I haven't tasted anything more recent than 2009. We're tasting two 2010s, Valdeolmos and Viñas de Arcilla, next week at elmundovino.originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have found the wines of Goyo Garcia Viadero in Ribera interesting. I'm surprised they wouldn't make such a list as yours, Victor.
The 2010 Vinas de Arcilla was a knockout when I tried it recently. An extraordinary wine.
Robert Dentice
Robert Dentice
I think one major reason is that there is just so much wine these days coming from everywhere - In addition to Italy and France - many new geek wines coming from New California, Australia, Germany, Austria, Finger Lakes, I could go on.
As for Spain I am a big fan but just don't have much capacity to drink Spanish wine more often.
This was an exciting recent discovery:
Zerberos
As for Spain I am a big fan but just don't have much capacity to drink Spanish wine more often.
This was an exciting recent discovery:
Zerberos
Despite his name and background, Daniel Ramos is actually... Australian! ;-)
Good producer in that exciting resurrected region, the Gredos mountains - but not quite in the élite yet.
evan hansen
Evan Hansen
originally posted by VS:
... Spain never appeared on this site (or its fondly remembered predecessor). Now a good number are made - but still very little interest shown by the wine-savvy crowd.
Oh well, what the heck. Back to poulsard.
I suspect a lot of the lack of conversation around these wines has to do with what people have access to. As someone said, there are lots of wines available these days that people are geeking out over, but they might be a bit different from place to place.
In Detroit, while we don't see many of the uncommon new California producers and while some "geek" wines from Europe get eaten up on the coasts before it makes it to us here, we're fortunate enough to have quite a bit of great Spanish wine because of a local importer.
A number of the producers that were mentioned (and some others) are available here through her portfolio: Lupier, Allemany i Corrio, Raul Bobet, et cetera.
We may not be posting about them here for the reasons Todd Abrams already outlined, but we're certainly enjoying them and talking about them and even geeking out about them in Detroit. I own and operate a restaurant here now, and people genuinely love the Pardevalles Albarin Blanco, Allemany i Corrio's "Sot Lefriec," and the Bibei "Lapola" (for starters).
Todd Abrams
Todd Abrams
originally posted by VS:
By the way, in regions that overall perhaps don't deserve as much attention as the ones I mentioned there are also quite a few very interesting people, focused on drinkable, non-disfigured terroir-based wines: Domaines Lupier (Enrique Basarte/Elisa Úcar)
The 2009 Lupier Terroir is outstanding. I never tire of the clarity and concentration of that wine.
originally posted by evan hansen:
Allemany i Corrio
Their old-vine xarel.lo wants to be Meursault with a Spanish accent.
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Yes - I had the 2009 Valdeolmos and it was staggeringly beautiful.originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have found the wines of Goyo Garcia Viadero in Ribera interesting. I'm surprised they wouldn't make such a list as yours, Victor.
José physically accosted me and dragged me to their table when he first brought them in and they were as promised. I haven't really followed them up. They're 0 sulfur, right? Does that present any issues that folks have run into?
One I've quite liked that I don't see on the list from Rioja is Conde De Hervías, but I don't think there is anything revolutionary about it.
I've also discovered I have a weak spot for DO Madrid. I love the wines of Marañones and have liked Bernabeleva. However, i had a Marañones with a few years on it and it had fallen apart. Not sure what to make of that.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Let's talk about access. Here are the number of available wines, for a few relevant countries, at three geek-worthy shops around town:
Store 1: France 527, Italy 244, Spain 117, Germany 84, USA 127, Australia 1
Store 2: France 1779, Italy 201, Spain 76, Germany 243, USA 230, Australia 11
Store 3: France 1220, Italy 569, Spain 266, Germany 90, USA 595, Australia 60
For every bottle of Spanish wine on the shelf, there are two bottles of Italian wine and five bottles of French wine, not to mention those from other nations.
The wonder isn't that Spain gets so little notice but that Germany gets so much!
Store 1: France 527, Italy 244, Spain 117, Germany 84, USA 127, Australia 1
Store 2: France 1779, Italy 201, Spain 76, Germany 243, USA 230, Australia 11
Store 3: France 1220, Italy 569, Spain 266, Germany 90, USA 595, Australia 60
For every bottle of Spanish wine on the shelf, there are two bottles of Italian wine and five bottles of French wine, not to mention those from other nations.
The wonder isn't that Spain gets so little notice but that Germany gets so much!
I don't even know Conde de Hervías! I'll have to look it up.originally posted by VLM:
They're 0 sulfur, right? Does that present any issues that folks have run into?
One I've quite liked that I don't see on the list from Rioja is Conde De Hervías, but I don't think there is anything revolutionary about it.
I've also discovered I have a weak spot for DO Madrid. I love the wines of Marañones and have liked Bernabeleva. However, i had a Marañones with a few years on it and it had fallen apart. Not sure what to make of that.
García Viadero is 0 added sulfur indeed. I haven't found a problem with it yet. We're finally tasting two of his 2010s, blind, on Wednesday. Will report back.
Ageability of Gredos garnachas, as with many other grenaches, remains a touchy subject, but I suspect they'll be more stable as this bunch of young winemakers gets experience in working with a rather oxidative variety - something that's not common in Spain. Indeed, I've been making grenache myself in Manchuela for six years and we're still learning...
originally posted by VS:
I don't even know Conde de Hervías! I'll have to look it up.originally posted by VLM:
They're 0 sulfur, right? Does that present any issues that folks have run into?
One I've quite liked that I don't see on the list from Rioja is Conde De Hervías, but I don't think there is anything revolutionary about it.
I've also discovered I have a weak spot for DO Madrid. I love the wines of Marañones and have liked Bernabeleva. However, i had a Marañones with a few years on it and it had fallen apart. Not sure what to make of that.
García Viadero is 0 added sulfur indeed. I haven't found a problem with it yet. We're finally tasting two of his 2010s, blind, on Wednesday. Will report back.
Ageability of Gredos garnachas, as with many other grenaches, remains a touchy subject, but I suspect they'll be more stable as this bunch of young winemakers gets experience in working with a rather oxidative variety - something that's not common in Spain. Indeed, I've been making grenache myself in Manchuela for six years and we're still learning...
The vines are in Torremontalvo and some are pre-phyloxera. The wine is more modern than Tondonia and the like, more Bordelais, I think, but I'm OK with that. I liked the wines quite a bit, but I'm not sure they wouldn't be too "modern" for folks around here.
I'd be really interested to hear about how the 2010s showed. I may start putting some in the cellar.
I don't know that the grenache has to age to be interesting to me. It's so compleex and satisfying as a young wine to me, that I don't mind drinking them that way. It scratches my weird grenache itch.
Zillions of good grenaches now in Spain. Take your pick of a style...
Goyo García Viadero's 2010s are wonderful. Nothing like an archetypal Ribera - which is all to their credit. The Duero meets Burgundy, or something. I understand the Peruco is as usual the best, but we couldn't taste it - none left anywhere in Madrid! Valdeolmos and Viñas de Arcilla both terrific - balsamic, light, lively, with earthy tones and nice red berries in there, subtle and long. What more to expect?
Goyo García Viadero's 2010s are wonderful. Nothing like an archetypal Ribera - which is all to their credit. The Duero meets Burgundy, or something. I understand the Peruco is as usual the best, but we couldn't taste it - none left anywhere in Madrid! Valdeolmos and Viñas de Arcilla both terrific - balsamic, light, lively, with earthy tones and nice red berries in there, subtle and long. What more to expect?