Still no geek appeal

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VS and other Spain enthusiasts: any opinions on Gratavinum? I've never gotten along with Priorat but their 2πr 2008 was recommended as a less ripe, properly structured and not overly oaked style that might be to my taste. I'd like more opinions before I get one to taste.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
VS and other Spain enthusiasts: any opinions on Gratavinum? I've never gotten along with Priorat but their 2πr 2008 was recommended as a less ripe, properly structured and not overly oaked style that might be to my taste. I'd like more opinions before I get one to taste.
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Haven't tasted them in quite a while. Never liked them. Priorat producers who are making wines in a zippier, far less oaky style are Álvaro Palacios (yes, post-2008!), Terroir al Lìmit, Les Cousins Marc & Adrià, Fredi Torres Viticultor.
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
Luis A Rodriguez, A Torno Dos Pasas, Ribiero 2011, 12.5% and delicious. Imported by Jose Pastor. I could geek out on this wine.
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Luis Anxo has an inexpensive red, Eidos Ermos, that's as good as his Torna dos Pasás. Three more Ribeiro producers who are just as good: Xosé Lois Sebio (at Coto de Gomariz and on his own at Sebio & Carreiro Vignerons), Manuel Formigo, and the González Vázquez brothers at Casal de Armán.

Ribeiro is up there with Ribeira Sacra and Rías Baixas as areas worthy of some attention in Galicia currently.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Marc D:
Fefiñanes Albariño always gets my attention. Maybe it's more of a classic then a geeky wine, but dependably great.
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Speaking of Albariño, the Fillaboa, Monte Alte is a lovely wine - I prefer it to the Do Ferreiro, Cepas Vellas.
Best, Jim
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Jim,
I had my first Fillaboa in Florida recently and was blown away by it. Very atypical for Albariño, but very enjoyable.

Mark Lipton
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A third vote for Fillaboa here. Interesting the way Albarino jumped from obscurity to bordering on mainstream, without a long stop in the geek community on the way.

Wasn't it just a couple of years ago that you couldn't encounter a wine geek without Txakolina being mentioned within a few sentences? I thought Mencia was certified geek territory, but maybe I spend too much time with stats and not enough with somms. Surely the rebirth of Mission in Canary Islands form qualifies for geekdom, no?
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

just about anything jose pastor brings in is purchase worthy. ill try an post some notes as ill be drinking quite a few soon.

my only comment to the op is that the retailers dont seem to be behind spainish wine ( im speaking generally). i dont know why that is but i notice it inthe shops i frequent.
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I think your retailers are an unrepresentative sample. Trade surveys show strong enthusiasm and optimism for Spanish wines generally; Rioja, Albarino and Garnacha-based reds in particular.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

just about anything jose pastor brings in is purchase worthy. ill try an post some notes as ill be drinking quite a few soon.

my only comment to the op is that the retailers dont seem to be behind spainish wine ( im speaking generally). i dont know why that is but i notice it inthe shops i frequent.
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I think your retailers are an unrepresentative sample. Trade surveys show strong enthusiasm and optimism for Spanish wines generally; Rioja, Albarino and Garnacha-based reds in particular.
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These retailers have a significant inventory. What I meant was , they just dont get behind the wines the way they do with French and italian wines.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by VS:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have found the wines of Goyo Garcia Viadero in Ribera interesting. I'm surprised they wouldn't make such a list as yours, Victor.
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Lots of good producers were left out, I'm sure - no ambition to be comprehensive! Love Goyo's wines, very delicate, but I'm a bit miffed by the steep pricing, and I haven't tasted anything more recent than 2009. We're tasting two 2010s, Valdeolmos and Viñas de Arcilla, next week at elmundovino.
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The 2010 Vinas de Arcilla was a knockout when I tried it recently. An extraordinary wine.

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Had the 2011 last night and it was really quite wonderful. Prunes, leather, and gorgeous cedar/sandalwood. Luxurious without flabbiness, bright with the acidity, light with the tannins. Classical in style, yet eminently pleasurable to a natural wine palate.

When oak manifests as oak, I don't like it, but that must be a kind of deprogramming, since I used to like it. But when oak manifests as cedar, I just love it. Maybe I haven't had time to deprogram that one.
 
Oswaldo, when you mention oak manifesting as cedar, I immediately think of Bordeaux.
Cedar, cigar box maybe?

I tried a very interesting Spanish white wine this week, Els Bassotets from a winery named Escoda Sanahuja. From Catalonia. Biodynamic, natural style wine that has 4 days of maceration on the skins. A blend of Chenin Blanc and several other white grapes grown in Catalonia. Zippy, mineral, citrus zest mixed with a bit of bruised apple oxidation, and a little phenolic bitterness I guess from the skin contact. Tasty wine. I had no idea there was Chenin grown in Spain.
Imported here by Indie Wineries.

Thanks for reviving a good thread and happy New Years!
 
What some people refer to as cedar I often refer to as pencil lead. It's the smell of pencil shavings, which very well may arise from the red cedar wood of the pencil. It's certainly the detritus of NFO that has fully integrated with the wine. Over the years I've become less tolerant to that smell, as I have with minty and eucalyptus odors. YMMV of course.

Mark Lipton
 
I think there's more to the lead pencil thing than just the oak. A couple reasons for this:

1) There *is* a difference between wines that smell like pencil shavings and wines that smell like cedarwood. I can't begin to explain how this is chemically possible since everyone says that graphite has no smell, but pencil shavings do smell very different from cedar closet hangers and the same difference appears in wine.

2) Tons of wines are aged in new oak but the pencil shavings thing is most pronounced in cabernet-based wines, even more pronounced in Bordeaux, and even more pronounced in Pauillac, which is like the ground zero for this. It is sort of like how everyone says the "Asian spice" thing in Vosne-Romanee is just from the oak. That may be, but it's plastered over many a Vosne and barely appears at all in 100% new oaked wines from the next town over.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
Oswaldo, when you mention oak manifesting as cedar, I immediately think of Bordeaux.
Cedar, cigar box maybe?

I tried a very interesting Spanish white wine this week, Els Bassotets from a winery named Escoda Sanahuja. From Catalonia. Biodynamic, natural style wine that has 4 days of maceration on the skins. A blend of Chenin Blanc and several other white grapes grown in Catalonia. Zippy, mineral, citrus zest mixed with a bit of bruised apple oxidation, and a little phenolic bitterness I guess from the skin contact. Tasty wine. I had no idea there was Chenin grown in Spain.
Imported here by Indie Wineries.

Thanks for reviving a good thread and happy New Years!
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Happy New Year to you too Marc!

I'm with you on that Els Bassotets chenin/maccabeo. What was the vintage of yours? After seeing positive mentions in Raisin, I ordered a bottle of the 2015 at Night & Market in West Hollywood last September, and my notes say (loosely translated) "Had that classic long maceration aroma (of lees, skins, or deceased yeasts). So far, nothing out of the ordinary, but there was something special about the mouthfeel. It was ample, but without any flub, with a very pleasant texture, almost frothy, and ideal weight and balance. Was a big hit at the table."

And yes, I too associate cedar with cigar box and Bordeaux (but not with pencil shavings).
 
originally posted by MLipton:
What some people refer to as cedar I often refer to as pencil lead. It's the smell of pencil shavings, which very well may arise from the red cedar wood of the pencil. It's certainly the detritus of NFO that has fully integrated with the wine. Over the years I've become less tolerant to that smell, as I have with minty and eucalyptus odors. YMMV of course.

Mark Lipton
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Like Keith, I get cedar and lead pencil/pencil shavings/graphite as different, while associating both with Bordeaux, where they sometimes occur simultaneously.

But there was tons of cedar in a 2006 Clos Rougeard Poyeux opened a year ago and I really enjoyed this particular manifestation of (new?) wood. With a touch of guilt, but the flesh is weak. That, plus the leather, made the memory of that Poyeux converge with this 2011 Goyo Garcia tempranillo. It had lots of cedar/sandalwood, but no graphite/pencil shavings.

I'm sure there's a difference between cedar and sandalwood, but I'd have to smell them side by side to register that, fleetingly.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I think there's more to the lead pencil thing than just the oak. A couple reasons for this:

1) There *is* a difference between wines that smell like pencil shavings and wines that smell like cedarwood. I can't begin to explain how this is chemically possible since everyone says that graphite has no smell, but pencil shavings do smell very different from cedar closet hangers and the same difference appears in wine.

2) Tons of wines are aged in new oak but the pencil shavings thing is most pronounced in cabernet-based wines, even more pronounced in Bordeaux, and even more pronounced in Pauillac, which is like the ground zero for this. It is sort of like how everyone says the "Asian spice" thing in Vosne-Romanee is just from the oak. That may be, but it's plastered over many a Vosne and barely appears at all in 100% new oaked wines from the next town over.
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Completely agree with all of this. Except the Vosne comment, where (sadly) I have insufficient experience.

On the other hand, I do get tobacco/cigarbox in both Bordeaux (especially Graves) and older Rioja, and Abacela's Tempranillo from Umpqua Valley when aged. Occasionally in Napa or Sonoma Valley Cabs.
 
Happy New Year to you too Marc!

I'm with you on that Els Bassotets chenin/maccabeo. What was the vintage of yours? After seeing positive mentions in Raisin, I ordered a bottle of the 2015 at Night & Market in West Hollywood last September, and my notes say (loosely translated) "Had that classic long maceration aroma (of lees, skins, or deceased yeasts). So far, nothing out of the ordinary, but there was something special about the mouthfeel. It was ample, but without any flub, with a very pleasant texture, almost frothy, and ideal weight and balance. Was a big hit at the table."

And yes, I too associate cedar with cigar box and Bordeaux (but not with pencil shavings).
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El Bassotets was the latest vintage, 2016.

Your tasting note description brings to mind another recent white I tried, Angiolino Maule I Masieri. It wasn't a skin contact white, but it had yeasty fermentation flavors, almost to the level of Belgian Gueuze, which I liked. I know some object to these flavors. But the amazing thing about the Maule wine was the texture. Like delicate silk and cream without the weight.

Regarding the cedar in Rougeard Poyeux, I believe that wine ages in used Bordeaux barrels.
Probably no coincidence there.
 
Interesting! Next time somebody boasts that they buy their OFO from DRC, I'll shrug knowingly.

Our inventorial stars must be aligned, I opened a 2015 Angiolino Maule Masieri IGT Veneto 12,5% in May, but my uncertain notes say: "Garganega. Turbid white, suggesting time on lees. Grapefruit and yeast aromas. After the initial attack, there's a drop-off in body, despite the long, and slightly sweetish finish. Maybe because it lacks a measure of acidity. Perhaps it just needs more time." The yeast was there all right, but a bit too much for me (even though Gueuze is among the few beers I find interesting).
 
originally posted by Marc D:
Happy New Year to you too Marc!

I'm with you on that Els Bassotets chenin/maccabeo. What was the vintage of yours? After seeing positive mentions in Raisin, I ordered a bottle of the 2015 at Night & Market in West Hollywood last September, and my notes say (loosely translated) "Had that classic long maceration aroma (of lees, skins, or deceased yeasts). So far, nothing out of the ordinary, but there was something special about the mouthfeel. It was ample, but without any flub, with a very pleasant texture, almost frothy, and ideal weight and balance. Was a big hit at the table."

And yes, I too associate cedar with cigar box and Bordeaux (but not with pencil shavings).
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El Bassotets was the latest vintage, 2016.

Your tasting note description brings to mind another recent white I tried, Angiolino Maule I Masieri. It wasn't a skin contact white, but it had yeasty fermentation flavors, almost to the level of Belgian Gueuze, which I liked. I know some object to these flavors. But the amazing thing about the Maule wine was the texture. Like delicate silk and cream without the weight.

Regarding the cedar in Rougeard Poyeux, I believe that wine ages in used Bordeaux barrels.
Probably no coincidence there.
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Those Maule wines are gorgeous. Happy New Year to you Marc!
 
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