Winemakers rating other winemaker's wines

T

Todd Abrams

Todd Abrams
I use the Delectable app to record some of the wines I drink, mainly because it's a hell of a lot easier than scrolling through my camera roll if I ever want to find some wine I might have consumed two years ago in a semi-drunken haze. To the point, I keep running across wines rated by Cathy Corison and it seems that she has rotten luck with wines that are infected to some degree with brett or are “slightly” corked.

I can't argue with cork taint because I wasn't there but there have been more than a couple wines that she has claimed were overrun with brett that I found little issue with. I call for a full chemical analysis or at least a proper arm-wrestling match (best 2 out of 3).

More importantly, here is a lauded winemaker publicly calling out perceived flaws in other winemaker's wines. Is this something akin to author on author hate or simply a winemaker that likes to flex her cellar vocabulary?

Frankly, I'm a bit turned off by the whole affair. I expect a winemaker to be an expert in their own wines and not dressing up as a pithy Robert Parker on their free time. Thoughts?
 
I doubt it is intended maliciously. She was educated at UC Davis, and they get a fair bit of flaws pummeled into them in the this is never acceptable vein. The case is not uncommon in the least (low tolerance for any brett, VA, etc., whatsoever), even for winemakers making types of wine we might associate with more old-world balance, or lack of technical sterility.

More philosophically, and in a broader sense, I do wonder if in general a winemaker aware of and vigilant against flaws in his or her own wine might be slightly more aware of them in other wines, in the way a filmmaker would notice, I don't know, a boom hanging just imperceptibly in the corner of some other movie's frame.

The author bullying is funny, but it's more taste, full-stop. There are no novel flaws (well, I'd throw out some popular literature, but many don't even find Twilight corked).
 
And, pace that 1993 Overnoy note of legend, at least wine commentary is less virulent. Nobody ever called Paolo Bea "An idiot child screaming in a hospital."

Me, I like a splash of VA.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
Frankly, I'm a bit turned off by the whole affair. I expect a winemaker to be an expert in their own wines and not dressing up as a pithy Robert Parker on their free time. Thoughts?
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I gather that you think it's different when I complain about brett versus when she complains about brett. Why?

- She's got a ton more cred than I do. By any reasonable measure you should prefer her writing over mine.

- While she certainly holds a special place w/r/t her own wine she's "just another palate" so far as anybody else's wine is concerned. Right?

- In this era of the Social Web, you don't have to be a professional writer in order to publish. Everyone can. Why should she not?

But let's come back around to you: You find her activity indecorous. How do you rank it with the guy making wine with fascist slogans, the racist winemakers in Friuli and Tuscany, the elitist Champagne house, etc.?
 
She has over 27,000 followers on Delectable so presumably many of these folks think she is more than just another palate. And it isn't writing, it's assigning a score with a handful of descriptors. I like the filmmaker analogy but in this case the filmmaker would be on IMDB assigning ratings to other recent films with nothing other than a cursory analysis. Do you see no conflict of interest?

Not sure how racist winemakers are relevant to this discussion. Are they posting scores for other winemakers wines?
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
...with nothing other than a cursory analysis.
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How is her drinking a wine and giving it a Delectable score more of a cursory analysis than any other of the app's users drinking it and giving it a Delectable score? What makes hers cursory?
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
...with nothing other than a cursory analysis.
Click to expand...

How is her drinking a wine and giving it a Delectable score more of a cursory analysis than any other of the app's users drinking it and giving it a Delectable score? What makes hers cursory?
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It's no more or less on the surface. Yet it carries the weight of her reputation/celebrity.
 
I think that winegrrrl has a point with the difference between a winemaker tasting a wine and a regular citizen from doing so. Winemakers are trained in technical tasting, judging wines by their balance, faults, etc. So I don't find it especially malicious if Cathy Corison judges other wines by those criteria, even if we ourselves might not do so. The advisability of putting those opinions out on Delectable is a whole 'nother kettle of fish, though.

Mark Lipton
 
I follow her because I love her wines. I tend to find her comments gentle. And often even generous. I've never seen her actually trash another maker's wine. Her posts come across as just calling them as she sees them.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
Do you see no conflict of interest?
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Does she claim to be someone other than Cathy Corison? Then, no.

Not sure how racist winemakers are relevant to this discussion. Are they posting scores for other winemakers wines?
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My point is that racist/fascist/sexist/antisemitic ranting is far more injurious/revolting. (I do agree she should be using prongs, not points.)
 
I can't argue with cork taint because I wasn't there but there have been more than a couple wines that she has claimed were overrun with brett that I found little issue with. I call for a full chemical analysis or at least a proper arm-wrestling match (best 2 out of 3).
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Bear in mind that, regardless of lab results, different people have different sensitivities and thresholds of detection for each of these. And then on top of that their preferences.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
Yet it carries the weight of her reputation/celebrity.
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That's why I don't read Jane Austen or Dostoevsky. Vladimir Nabokov told me not to.

I don't know; I try to see what you're saying, but I can't help feeling that you just don't agree with her palate and are disappointed to think that it might be considered in some way "objective" by those following her. I think people might know that there is no palate that doesn't come without its own slant.

For instance, I wonder how many followers the wine writer Jay McInerney has, and what he recommends or finds fault with, and how the Delectable community feels about it.

We also all know someone in our own circles who doesn't like X grape, or can't stand Y type of expression, and we tend to say: Well, that's just Friend. Friend never likes Valdigué. We don't automatically say: ZOMG, Valdigué, it is not good to drink!

Also, why do people keep opening Riesling around me?

Manos-08.jpg
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Some of us are even being considered experts, as we speak...From the wine section of a food discussion board:

mff.jpg
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What a retard this colleague of ours must be! According to her, Rioja at 42, Bandol at 43, Barolo at 44, are all impossible.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
...I can't help feeling that you just don't agree with her palate and are disappointed to think that it might be considered in some way "objective" by those following her.
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You're right. For the record, I don't think her notes and ratings are meant to be malicious. The author quotes were funny so I felt the need to shoehorn them into my post.

Maybe if Didier Barral joins Delectable and (gently) calls out her wine as a drainpour for being too sterile or something order will be restored to the universe.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
Winemakers rating other winemaker's winesI use the Delectable app to record some of the wines I drink, mainly because it's a hell of a lot easier than scrolling through my camera roll if I ever want to find some wine I might have consumed two years ago in a semi-drunken haze. To the point, I keep running across wines rated by Cathy Corison and it seems that she has rotten luck with wines that are infected to some degree with brett or are “slightly” corked.

I can't argue with cork taint because I wasn't there but there have been more than a couple wines that she has claimed were overrun with brett that I found little issue with. I call for a full chemical analysis or at least a proper arm-wrestling match (best 2 out of 3).

More importantly, here is a lauded winemaker publicly calling out perceived flaws in other winemaker's wines. Is this something akin to author on author hate or simply a winemaker that likes to flex her cellar vocabulary?

Frankly, I'm a bit turned off by the whole affair. I expect a winemaker to be an expert in their own wines and not dressing up as a pithy Robert Parker on their free time. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Funny, I have always tried to be very circumspect on Delectable, specifically not wanting to be perceived as a critic. For a long time I just didn't post wines made by people I know or about wines I didn't like. Later we were given the option to keep posts private and I use that 1) when I know the winemaker and don't LOVE the wine 2) when I don't have something nice to say. My notes are mostly for myself.

I use Delectable for two reasons: 1) to keep a record of what I taste/drink 2) it's a great forum to share my love of wine and, perhaps, to help a budding wine lover find something they like. I'm always on the lookout for great values and try to highlight them.

As for commenting on another winemaker's wine, that would be every wine I taste. Someone made every wine.

As for Brettanomyces, I happen to like a little Brett. For me it adds complexity. In fact, truth be known, most of my wines have been kissed by Brett. I actively manage it in the cellar. For me a wine is ruined by Brett. only when it has been robbed of all its fruit and become one-note. It didn't even cross my mind that the mention of Brett. in a wine would be considered a criticism. I'm especially fond of what a friend calls "good and Bretty" Côte Rotie.

When I mention a corked wine it's to say that, sadly, I can't evaluate the wine. A bad cork is not the winemaker's fault. I once had an entire vintage ruined by an especially bad lot of corks- almost lost my business over it.

I should also say that I try to use more of the rating scale than many do. If I rank a wine anywhere in the "like" range, that means I truly like it. When a wine drops down into the 70's or lower I generally mark it private.

One last comment is that I've tasted, blind, in a tasting group of fellow winemakers for well over 30 years and we seldom agree with each other. I have never taken any one taster's opinion too seriously (even card-carrying wine critics).

Going forward, I will re-double my efforts to avoid any comments that might be misinterpreted.
 
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