Italian Lineup/multicourse dinner - menu

Peter Creasey

Peter Creasey

Peter Creasey
MENU:

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WINE INFO:

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CULINARY DELIGHTS:







. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Italian Lineup/multicourse dinner - menu
MENU:

advtnym3.jpg
WINE INFO:

advtnyw2.jpg
. . . . . Pete
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I can never quite put my finger on why these menus seem designed to raise one's hackles. The Italian ones remind me of a prolix novel in search of an editor, while the French menus you post appear to be sponsored by the American College of Cardiology in order to drum up business.

Anyway, my two cents:

No Italian would serve a risotto and a pasta dish in the same meal. Overkill. If a dish has saffron serving it with a red wine, particularly with some tannin, will make the wine taste bitter. As far as the main course is concerned, why serve cheese-stuffed pasta as a side dish. Weird. Then, a classic Torta della Nonna is a simple (though hardly light) affair. What in the world do apples, raisins or even pecan pie have to do with it? And last but not least, cappuccini aren't generally served in Italy after 4 PM. Certainly never, ever after a heavy dinner.
 
Piling on:

I see very little difference at the table between the pasta with osso buco and the macaroni and cheese pasta with braised short ribs. Similar textures and flavors.

Artichokes don't need truffles and truffles don't need artichokes.

The verbiage needs both an editor and a proofreader. And a character set that includes accented letters.
 
Mark and Jeff, No one is (and speaks) more Italian than this restaurateur. He's the real thing and has been operating his establishment very successfully (even with national acclaim) for 50 years.

Since he is not here to dialogue with you, I added photos to the original posting so the dishes might perhaps speak for themselves.

. . . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Mark and Jeff, No one is (and speaks) more Italian that this restaurateur. He's the real thing and has been operating his establishment very successfully (even with national acclaim) for 50 years.
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I know Mark started the 'authentic' line of inquiry, but whether or not one is a real or a fake Italian surely has nothing to do with good taste.

There are plenty of people in all countries (and in the restaurant business no less) who have terrible taste. Sometimes it depends on the market they are serving, but sometimes it resides with them. Either way, one need only examine the product to reach the verdict.
 
Started to reply more strongly. Will just say the point made doesn't apply in this case.

As for the food, if a person had been there and was unhappy with the food, then that person was SURELY a minority of one among discerning patrons. The excellent planning, composing, preparing, and serving by a culinary team that's proven itself over decades were well in evidence in this case.

Maybe there's a regional issue in play here with the opinions...I don't know.

In any case, it's good to see the interest in the food expressed here.

. . . . . Pete
 
I for one am glad to see that the dishes are more or less written in correct English as that is a major step forward from some of the previous dinners. Though I admit I usually associate cacio e pepe with Rome, not normally a city known for its risotto.
 
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
Though I admit I usually associate cacio e pepe with Rome, not normally a city known for its risotto.
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In fact, they don't serve risotto in Rome. The dish is pasta al cacio e pepe. But Rahsaan makes the excellent point that authenticity isn't the point here. (Though I enjoyed - in a slightly tongue-in-cheek post - flogging that.)

There is definitely a regional issue in play, as Pete said. There are many parts of the country where there is a paucity of sophisticated palates. I happen to live in one now. We have stellar ingredients but few chefs who know how to use them. Again Rahsaan deftly sums it up, "There are plenty of people in all countries (and in the restaurant business no less) who have terrible taste." Yup. Tons of restaurant folk with good knife skills and no palate.

The menu appalls because of a lack of balance: two starchy dishes and then a pasta side with the main course. Sure, it is lunacy, but the "discerning patrons" (and I'm guessing this is not ironic) loved it.
 
Although of course I agree with Mark E., if this were about a real dinner -- tonnarelli al cacio e pepe being something of a grail quest for us when we are in Rome -- but I continue to think that these "dinners" are better understood if we think of the reporter as a Texas Artaud. Otherwise, you'd have to expect Artusi himself to come back from the dead to wreak revenge.
 
Kirk, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Regional tastes for sure.
I spent the first 18 years of my life where Italian food was what they served on 9th street in S Philly.
Everything was covered in tomato sauce, which the locals called gravy.
Spaghetti meatballs gravy and a cannoli with sweet ricotta in a crunchy shell.
Cheap chianti in a fiasco.
We were living large!
 
originally posted by mark e:
There are many parts of the country where there is a paucity of sophisticated palates. I happen to live in one now. We have stellar ingredients but few chefs who know how to use them.
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Fair enough. Although if I have my timeline correct, you may be coming at things from a very skewed perspective. Very few regions anywhere in the world can compete with the SF Bay Area for food intelligence.

I too have a similarly skewed perspective, having moved here from Nyc (and before that several other Great Gastro Places). But, all things considered, I think we have a nice little slice of gastronomical sophistication here in America's Piedmont. Or maybe I'm just trying to focus on the positives.

Case in point, last night I had dinner at the Counting House in Durham. Sure my blood pressure rose a bit when the waitress described the Renardat-Fache Bugey as 'a sweet wine...not off-dry like a riesling would be'. And sure the menu was too precious. But then I tried to focus on the positives. Like the fact that I could have a glass of RF Bugey before my delicious meal. And all things considered I am happy that the restaurant is there!

Oh, and this was very much a tangent. I suspect your larger point about the target demographic for the meal may have some merit. But it's only a suspicion. Pete may know more.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by mark e:
There are many parts of the country where there is a paucity of sophisticated palates. I happen to live in one now. We have stellar ingredients but few chefs who know how to use them.
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Case in point, last night I had dinner at the Counting House in Durham..
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Glad to hear that there is some hope. And how great that you can get a glass of something like that. Downtown Durham appears to be where change will happen. I have high hopes for the new restaurant in The Durham Hotel, which I believe opens this weekend. Chapel Hill seems to be going in the opposite direction, though.

'Course - as you say - that's not really what I was talking about.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Since he is not here to dialogue with you, I added photos to the original posting so the dishes might perhaps speak for themselves.
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This joke isn't funny anymore. Ooh, sprinkles!
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Curious...what's the apparent objection to enhancing the taste of a dish with sprinkled cheese?
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I guess you're replying to me?

I have no objection to sprinkles. I even ordered an assortment of hagelslag from Denmark once just to try it on buttered bread.

Any objection I have is to the photos. You've got about thirty shades of brown across the range of images. Even the green looks brown. Frankly, it all kind of looks like pet food. How can these images possibly help the dishes speak for themselves?
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
Any objection I have is to the photos. You've got about thirty shades of brown across the range of images. Even the green looks brown. Frankly, it all kind of looks like pet food. How can these images possibly help the dishes speak for themselves?
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That's slightly over-stated. I grant that the risotto and the dessert look like barf and a science experiment, respectively, but the others look perfectly lovely.
 
originally posted by Marc D:
Kirk, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Regional tastes for sure.
I spent the first 18 years of my life where Italian food was what they served on 9th street in S Philly.
Everything was covered in tomato sauce, which the locals called gravy.
Spaghetti meatballs gravy and a cannoli with sweet ricotta in a crunchy shell.
Cheap chianti in a fiasco.
We were living large!
Click to expand...
Marc D ftw! That was Italian in my neighborhood, too. (Served with a side of mob.)
 
This restaurant makes all of their pasta in-house from scratch with a focus on organic ingredients. Laying aside the issue of the visual presentation of the dish as served, all other aspects of the risotto dish were over-the-top marvelous.

. . . . . . Pete
 
... I think we have a nice little slice of gastronomical sophistication here in America's Piedmont. Or maybe I'm just trying to focus on the positives.
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I think every place is what you want to make it. Sure, some places make it easier than others, as when you were living in the lush lands of Babylon, but others you have to peel, layer by crying layer of onion.
 
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