Not easy making sheep cheese

Local cheese, like wine, is insanely expensive in the US compared to any other producing country, including Switzerland (for per capita income level comparaison).
And, at least for wine, this has nothing to do with production costs : producing one bottle of wine in Côte Rotie cost 2/3 times more than any cab from Napa.
BTW 1 ha of Côte Rotie costs around 1.5M these days ($650,000 per acre) just as expensive as any prestigious vineyard in Oakville or Rutherford.

IMO, the problem seems to be the level of income US neo-farmers are expecting from agricultural work and production compare to what europeans, Oz, SA, NZ are.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Local cheese, like wine, is insanely expensive in the US compared to any other producing country, including Switzerland (for per capita income level comparaison)...
IMO, the problem seems to be the level of income US neo-farmers are expecting from agricultural work and production compare to what europeans, Oz, SA, NZ are.
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That is an interesting hypothesis and there may be something to it. Although the local cheese producers that I know in the US are not exactly striking it rich. But then I haven't done a close analysis of their expenses/costs.

And to be fair, high-quality cheese may be cheaper in Europe than in the US. But even in Europe it is fairly expensive for the average person, who will be much more likely to buy modest supermarket cheese.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Brézème:
Local cheese, like wine, is insanely expensive in the US compared to any other producing country, including Switzerland (for per capita income level comparaison)...
IMO, the problem seems to be the level of income US neo-farmers are expecting from agricultural work and production compare to what europeans, Oz, SA, NZ are.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting hypothesis and there may be something to it. Although the local cheese producers that I know in the US are not exactly striking it rich. But then I haven't done a close analysis of their expenses/costs.

And to be fair, high-quality cheese may be cheaper in Europe than in the US. But even in Europe it is fairly expensive for the average person, who will be much more likely to buy modest supermarket cheese.
Click to expand...

I have no great statistical knowledge to contest that last statement with but where we stay in Provence, I see a lot of people buying artisanal cheese at the local grocery store and am almost never served supermarket cheese. The prices there and at the fromageries in the market aren't substantially cheaper, or more expensive than what I pay at Calvert Woodley here, but their prices are usually pretty good. There are ritzier places to buy.

I'm pretty sure Eric is right about wine prices though. US wine makers seem to set their prices relative to what European wine costs here, which is frequently two to three times what it costs there.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
...but where we stay in Provence, I see a lot of people buying artisanal cheese at the local grocery store and am almost never served supermarket cheese.
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Clearly there is a market for high-end cheese in Europe and I'm guessing your social network is not representative of the region. I have found that the average quality for dairy products is higher in Europe than in the US. But that doesn't mean the average working family is eating high-end stuff.
 
My neighbors are my social network in Violes and they are farmers, construction workers, small shopkeepers. The area is not rife with academics and high end wine geeks.
 
Isn't the problem here that Americans are accustomed to spending less of their income (proportionately) on food than their counterparts in other countries, a trend attributable to the industrialization of agriculture here (or, the Wal-Martization of food production if you prefer)?

As consumers here place more value on quality, taste and nutrition, the support for artisanal food production will continue to grow. Along with that will come a decrease in costs for many artisanal producers as supplies of e.g. sheep varieties grows.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Isn't the problem here that Americans are accustomed to spending less of their income (proportionately) on food than their counterparts in other countries, a trend attributable to the industrialization of agriculture here (or, the Wal-Martization of food production if you prefer)?

As consumers here place more value on quality, taste and nutrition, the support for artisanal food production will continue to grow. Along with that will come a decrease in costs for many artisanal producers as supplies of e.g. sheep varieties grows.

Mark Lipton
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True. And there are a number of other factors at work here.

--Many US producers of artisanal cheese are working with small farms/herds, trying to keep a low overhead, and would rather stay small, produce a small amount and sell it at a high margin.

--Once you reach a level of production that outstrips your ability to sell direct (currently a much smaller channel in cheese than wine or craft beer) or in farmer's markets, you have to divert your labor into sales/marketing or hire people. It's surprising how fast that happens - just 20 cows can produce 30,000 pounds of cheese a year. Since most high end cheese purchases are in 1/4-1/2lb increments, that implies many thousands of retail sales transactions. Intimidating for a family farm with few or no full time employees. This probably works in reverse to keep large dairy farms out of the high end cheese business - how many of them think they can build a market for 100-500,000 pounds of $15-20/pound cheese?

--The market for higher end cheese is much larger in places like France than here. It can support large, efficient co-ops that can sell high quality (maybe not the best, but plenty good) cheese at lower prices than small U.S. producers. The closest equivalent here are places like Cabot or Vermont Creamery, and they are few and far between.

--on the supply side, my impression from industry people is that cows milk is no problem in cost or supply; in some markets the goats milk supply is pretty stable; sheep's milk is costly and more difficult. Another constraint for artisanal cheese is aging. The conditions have to be extremely stable and precise (and FDA approved) and differ for each type of cheese. That's why Jasper Hill in Vermont does the aging for a variety of cheesemakers, from small farms to giants like Cabot; they're the only ones with a variety of substantial well-run aging cellars and caves. And then there's the cost of aging inventory. I wonder if cheese financing is more understanding in Europe?
 
I definitely think that some of the basic calculations differ. Many wineries and other agricultural producers in Europe have been in the family for a long time, so the land and facilities start up cost usually do not factor as much (and often even maintenance cost are/cannot really be priced in). This is the reason why enthusiastic up starts with no family history pop mostly up in regions where start up cost are low, and not in Cote Rotie etc.

I am also pretty sure that salary expectations are very different. In Europe for most people 50K p.a. per year is considered quite good. And there is a lot of family help that is often not really factored in. Overall I think cost are indeed lower, but in addition there is also some self exploitation going on (which to some degree is softened by the better social safety net).
 
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