Corkage Question

Bill Lundstrom

Bill Lundstrom

Bill Lundstrom
does anyone have experience bringing large format bottles (mags and double mags) to restaurants that charge corkage? should i expect to pay more than the normal cost for 750 ml bottles? i have no problem paying but was wondering what people's experiences have been in this situation. thanks.
 
I like to call ahead and ask what the restaurant's policy is on corkage. Most of the restaurants I eat in try to discourage people from opening more than one of their own bottles by increasing the corkage fee on a second bottle. I have seen tiered pricing for magnums. I always do better on my corkage fees when I share a glass or two with the staff.

Best,

Brad
 
Just in general, it has always seemed reasonable to me that a magnum should pay double corkage, otherwise it's a way for mister rich smartypants to get two for the price of one.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Just in general, it has always seemed reasonable to me that a magnum should pay double corkage, otherwise it's a way for mister rich smartypants to get two for the price of one.
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well, there's plenty of inexpensive magnums one could bring. so, i don't think being a rich smarty pants has anything to do with it.
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Just in general, it has always seemed reasonable to me that a magnum should pay double corkage, otherwise it's a way for mister rich smartypants to get two for the price of one.
Click to expand...

well, there's plenty of inexpensive magnums one could bring. so, i don't think being a rich smarty pants has anything to do with it.
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It wouldn't in your case, but it may well be what restaurants have to be on their guard against. An inexpensive magnum could still be seen as a way to avoid paying the corkage of a pair of even less expensive 750s.
 
i see corkages listed as $$/750ml regularly. and why should it be otherwise? full disclosure--i am the wine buyer for a couple restaurants.

corkage is not a welfare program for people that can't otherwise afford to eat out. it is a way to allow a person to bring in a wine of the sort the restaurant does not purvey, while still bringing a portion of the revenue that is lost by the sale of wine.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
i see corkages listed as $$/750ml regularly. and why should it be otherwise? full disclosure--i am the wine buyer for a couple restaurants.

corkage is not a welfare program for people that can't otherwise afford to eat out. it is a way to allow a person to bring in a wine of the sort the restaurant does not purvey, while still bringing a portion of the revenue that is lost by the sale of wine.
Click to expand...

not entirely true where i live. corkage is a way to compete with the byob restaurants that are abundant in philadelphia. no one's looking for any type of welfare.
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by robert ames:
i see corkages listed as $$/750ml regularly. and why should it be otherwise? full disclosure--i am the wine buyer for a couple restaurants.

corkage is not a welfare program for people that can't otherwise afford to eat out. it is a way to allow a person to bring in a wine of the sort the restaurant does not purvey, while still bringing a portion of the revenue that is lost by the sale of wine.
Click to expand...

not entirely true where i live. corkage is a way to compete with the byob restaurants that are abundant in philadelphia. no one's looking for any type of welfare.
Click to expand...

as i understand it, pennsylvania is a one-off when it comes to the system that booze moves through, in that restaurants have to buy wines at retail, which means a prohibitive mark up. (having never been there, my accounting of the pennsylvania system is perhaps not completely correct, but i have friends in the restaurant trade that have lived there and that is the way they describe it.)
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by robert ames:
i see corkages listed as $$/750ml regularly. and why should it be otherwise? full disclosure--i am the wine buyer for a couple restaurants.

corkage is not a welfare program for people that can't otherwise afford to eat out. it is a way to allow a person to bring in a wine of the sort the restaurant does not purvey, while still bringing a portion of the revenue that is lost by the sale of wine.
Click to expand...

not entirely true where i live. corkage is a way to compete with the byob restaurants that are abundant in philadelphia. no one's looking for any type of welfare.
Click to expand...

as i understand it, pennsylvania is a one-off when it comes to the system that booze moves through, in that restaurants have to buy wines at retail, which means a prohibitive mark up. (having never been there, my accounting of the pennsylvania system is perhaps not completely correct, but i have friends in the restaurant trade that have lived there and that is the way they describe it.)
Click to expand...

Markup is part of the problem, but sometimes the prices are OK. Rather, it is the entire setup that the monopoly delivers which can be restrictive. Selection is hit and miss and delivery is another issue. And there is great variability by state store. Georges Perrier more than once got in trouble with the system when he was fed up with the selection, etc.
 
To the original question, I'm just happy to have the chance to pay corkage, as it is offered. When it approaches $50 I realize the restaurant is giving me a strong signal to buy off the list, unless the bottle is of some significance. Otherwise corkage seems to me an inevitable response to the decreasing instances of multi-generational, family-owned restaurants and the rise in the cost of good wine. It is very hard for a new restaurant to build a cellar with some age and diversity. Corkage offers me the chance to bring a bottle that might be more suitable than something a new-ish restaurant can provide, and I am happy to pay it.
 
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by robert ames:
i see corkages listed as $$/750ml regularly. and why should it be otherwise? full disclosure--i am the wine buyer for a couple restaurants.

corkage is not a welfare program for people that can't otherwise afford to eat out. it is a way to allow a person to bring in a wine of the sort the restaurant does not purvey, while still bringing a portion of the revenue that is lost by the sale of wine.
Click to expand...

not entirely true where i live. corkage is a way to compete with the byob restaurants that are abundant in philadelphia. no one's looking for any type of welfare.
Click to expand...

as i understand it, pennsylvania is a one-off when it comes to the system that booze moves through, in that restaurants have to buy wines at retail, which means a prohibitive mark up. (having never been there, my accounting of the pennsylvania system is perhaps not completely correct, but i have friends in the restaurant trade that have lived there and that is the way they describe it.)
Click to expand...

Markup is part of the problem, but sometimes the prices are OK. Rather, it is the entire setup that the monopoly delivers which can be restrictive. Selection is hit and miss and delivery is another issue. And there is great variability by state store. Georges Perrier more than once got in trouble with the system when he was fed up with the selection, etc.
Click to expand...

The best local restaurant here in the hinterlands of central Pennsyltucky recently acquired a liquor license after years as a BYOB place, and they appear to be working directly with a distributor, who can provide any wines in their book through the state's SLO (special liquor orders) system. This expands the range of available wines. I'll ask about the arrangement next time I'm there.

By the way, this place has a markup that's just a bit over 2x retail, which may cut their margin a bit relative to places elsewhere that can mark up relative to wholesale prices.
 
Yes, very few restaurants have older wines, or if they do, the price is astronomical. So even with the highest corkage fee (I think $150 at French Laundry), it still can pay to bring your own treasure (unless you want to fork out $600)...

Had a discussion with Quince sommelier a couple of years ago. We had three couples coming to dinner, so wanted each to bring a wine. But Quince would only allow 2 bottles. Or we could buy a three year old max wine to put up against the older bottles? Finally the sommelier told us to "just stay home", which we did...
 
originally posted by Carl Steefel:
Finally the sommelier told us to "just stay home", which we did...
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Ha! Serves them right if they let policy get in their own way. (Don't even get me started on the gift card policy at Eataly because it just annoys me.)
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Carl Steefel:
Finally the sommelier told us to "just stay home", which we did...
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Ha! Serves them right if they let policy get in their own way. (Don't even get me started on the gift card policy at Eataly because it just annoys me.)
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not sure i follow. . . .they stayed in the driver's seat and did business the way they wanted to do business. not even a pyrrhic victory.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
they stayed in the driver's seat and did business the way they wanted to do business.
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Absolutely true. They did as they pleased, Carl ate elsewhere and no money went in their till. Victory?
 
that question can only be answered by the business.

from my side of the table if you are thriving, a 6 top coming in with 3 bottles of wine is not considered to be a great scenario. if you are not thriving then you've got much bigger problems and a six top with 3 bottles of wine isn't going to save the day.
 
i suspect, as robert is hinting, Carl's table at Quince did not go empty that night, and that, to use Jeff's phrase, more money went in their till. To me, the approach does raise a question about long-term v. short-term benefits, though. I am pretty sure Quince made more money that night by being honest and non-hospitable to Carl, but it sounds like he hasn't been going back much (if at all) since then -- please correct me if I am wrong, Carl -- or been encouraging others to do so. Some restauranteurs would take the short-term hit to try to build a relationship with a customer who might in the future buy more from their list, or influence others to do so. Neither approach is a guarantee of success, but as robert says, choosing one or the other is a business decision. And given the cost of rent around Jackson Square, labor costs, etc., one can see how a business like Quince might have to weigh the short-term results more heavily than perhaps they would choose to in an "ideal" world.

That said, i suspect their current Beverage Director (new this past fall) might have found a more gracious solution to Carl's situation.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by robert ames:
a 6 top coming in with 3 bottles of wine is not considered to be a great scenario
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Is it your experience that pretty much every 6-top buys multiple bottles of wine?
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if you were to include wine that is sold by the glass, the percentage to consume more than 1 bottle would be very high.
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
And given the cost of rent around Jackson Square, labor costs, etc., one can see how a business like Quince might have to weigh the short-term results more heavily than perhaps they would choose to in an "ideal" world.
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I think expensive rent is not the only influencing factor.

I draw analogy to the problem getting contractors to work on my little building in NYC: they are so busy that often they don't even answer the phone or return messages. When they do respond you have to book months ahead. (For example, I booked a brownstoner in September so he would come in April.) The only control we have is to write a contract with a large chunk of money withheld until delivery (because if it's only a small chunk of money they'll walk off the job after the previous payment).

All of which is to say, when supply is low and demand is high, the supply-owners call the shots. Thus it is with Restaurant Q. If I want a Restaurant-Q-table, there is only one supplier. If some other table will suffice, I get a lot of leverage back.
 
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