Restaurant loyalty

[Bill Lundstrom]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by MarkS:
Unless you have a tiny, inadequate kitchen or a corporate-sponsored expense account, I see few upsides to eating out.

1. Change of pace.

2. Cuisine you cannot cook well at home. (Although maybe you are master of everything)

3. It's fun to be in the restaurant environment.

4. Convenient for a larger crowd that you might not want to host at home.

5. Convenient with the rest of your plans for the evening (theater, movie, etc).

6. Support local economy so you will continue to have the options in the future.

Of course I rarely eat out for dinner myself. But I do see the upsides!

I think I'm pretty good cook but I love eating out. One upside for me is getting new ideas from talented chefs not only from trying their dishes but talking with them if they are able to. Being a regular does allow you to chat with the chef at times especially if the chef is an owner.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

Kirk and I used to eat at the same place every other Tuesday. That was kind of nuts.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Kirk and I used to eat at the same place every other Tuesday. That was kind of nuts.

But it is often so very comfortable to do that. In one year (in SF) we probably went the same pizza restaurant around 40+ times - almost once a week.

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
One upside for me is getting new ideas from talented chefs not only from trying their dishes but talking with them if they are able to.

Indeed. It's a different game because it's more about entertainment than nourishment. I'm pretty good as average home cooks go, but the technical skills and artistry of many high-end chefs is certainly something fun to experience.

 

[Robert Dentice]

Yes. I would have multiple that fit your criteria.

 

[kirk wallace]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Kirk and I used to eat at the same place every other Tuesday. That was kind of nuts.

Yeah, but it wasn't for the food. the company and sometimes the wine were good.

 

[Brad Kane]

Yes, with caveats. They tend to be local pizza places, Pho or ramen joints, dim sum houses and diners.

Back in the day, Minetta Tavern, Les Routiers, La Rochetta, Il Corso and another restaurant or two may have qualified as a "favorite" restaurant for a number of us here as we easily hit those byo spots more than six times a year. Today, maybe Peking Duck House qualifies, or perhaps Grand Sichuan? Unfortunately, going out to jeeb at finer dining restaurants is no longer a $50-$60 proposition as it was even ten years ago, but is more in the $80-$140 range and I know that's made me dine out less. Frankly, I can have a bunch of folks over and cook a pretty decent meal for $50 and I opt to do that more often. Plus, I know we do potlucks frequently.

 

[kirk wallace]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Kirk and I used to eat at the same place every other Tuesday. That was kind of nuts.

But it is often so very comfortable to do that. In one year (in SF) we probably went the same pizza restaurant around 40+ times - almost once a week.

And i think this is capturing an important point that Jeff will need to sort through. In NYC and SF there are so many places that one could easily go to once a week and be comforted, nourished and entertained; that may be true in other markets as well, but my guess is in many it would be a challenge and you'd end up preferring to be at home. also not having to drive after dinner (or lunch) can also play into this equation.

In general, i cook dinner 3-5 nights a week, but in nyc there is one resto that i ate at once or twice a week on average probably 40-45 weeks a year for 20+ years and I was by no means their most most regular customer. probably not top 10. maybe not top 50.

these days, i get cranky if i don't get to franny's at least once a week.

but none of that, i think, helps to answer jeff's question of how restos keep their doors open.

 

[Chris Coad]

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Chris Coad:
Not anymore. Our favorite restaurants tend to keep either going out of business or losing their chef or turning into food trucks.

The last one was Apiary, but we never made it there six times in a year. I don't think we've ever been anywhere six times in a year. We just don't eat out that much. I can cook pretty well.

See I think this is the crux. There are restaurants I return to, again and again, because I like the food-ambience-value, and will eat out at new places more often in a city that I'm traveling to (where it becomes essentially 'destination dining'), but most often I have better choices and can cook better at home. Unless you have a tiny, inadequate kitchen or a corporate-sponsored expense account, I see few upsides to eating out.

Yup. We go out on special occasions and for geek events, those are pretty much the two categories. Special occasions are birthdays & anniversaries, of which there are three a year at most. Geek events are mostly when Lou & Bettylu are in town. Which is once a year. So that's four.

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Kirk and I used to eat at the same place every other Tuesday. That was kind of nuts.

Did everybody know your name? Cheers!

 

[kirk wallace]

for sure; but what i don't know is how they referred to us when we weren't there.

 

[MarkS]

2. Cuisine you cannot cook well at home. (Although maybe you are master of everything)

Oh I'm definitely Not a master of All(!) and only a passable cook, but this is the most compelling reason I like going to restaurants. Places that specialize in noodles, fried foods, molecular gastronomy, ethnic foods, complicated dishes...things I wouldn't make at home I would most certainly want to eat out at, but the choices around me are very limiting, which is why I tend not to eat out unless traveling.

 

[Ken Schramm]

originally posted by Brad Kane:
Yes, with caveats. They tend to be local pizza places, Pho or ramen joints, dim sum houses and diners.

...Frankly, I can have a bunch of folks over and cook a pretty decent meal for $50 and I opt to do that more often. Plus, I know we do potlucks frequently.

Echo this. I eat out way too much, with the business screwing with hours mercilessly. Sadly, it also up takes much of the energy I used to devote to cooking, though, so the latter option happens far too sparingly.

I don't get to my "favorite" restaurants more than a couple of times a year. There might be one Indian place I would categorize as above the line to move into the fave category that we also frequent regularly. We hit Mexican and other ethnic places more than the requisite number of times per year, but they are not loved so much as friends with food benefits.

 

[Jay Miller]

Without the dinner caveat there would be many nearby lunch and brunch places.

With it only a few.

Top of the list would have been the sadly departed St. Marks Place Grand Sichuan which was the best place to jeebus in the city.

Miso Ramen on 2nd Avenue.
New Thanh Hoai in Jersey City

We used to manage that at The Kitchen at Grove Station but they lost their chef and closed.

 

[MLipton]

To turn Kirk's point on its head (mind you, I'm not implying that Kirk has a pointy head), those of us who live in smaller communities as opposed to the restaurant meccas of NY/SF/LA and Chicago have many fewer dining options. So, going out to dinner comes down for us to a choice between 7 local restaurants and one wine bar that we enjoy enough to go to. Dining out comes down to taking a break from cooking at home, a task that mostly falls onto my shoulders (not that I mind) and eating foods that we can't easily prepare at home. Since we'll eat out a couple of times a week on average, the 6 times a year threshold is reached rather easily for several of those. Of those 8 places, only 6 would be considered "fine dining" and we'd have wine at only 5 of them.

Mark Lipton

 

[Peter Creasey]

Rather than eat out, we tend to order by phone, then carry out, and then eat at home with our wine/music/ambience/comfortable attire/etc.

. . . . . Pete

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Rather than eat out, we tend to order by phone, then carry out, and then eat at home with our wine/music/ambience/comfortable attire/etc.

. . . . . Pete

Do you really get good results that way? I can see doing that for the equivalent of snack food/fast food, where the intricacies of temperature and plating are not important. But I'm always amazed when fairly serious restaurants send their food out the front door to be eaten at a later point in time.

I guess if the money is good, the customer is always right!

 

[Peter Creasey]

We don't do fast food. Our carry outs include Persian, Italian, Mexican, Chinese, Cuban, Seafood (fried oysters on a salad tonight), Continental, Thai, and maybe some others I can't think of...most all of it is upscale.

The food is plenty hot for our preferences and plating to us is less important than ingredients and preparation.

. . . . Pete

 

[Robert Dentice]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Rather than eat out, we tend to order by phone, then carry out, and then eat at home with our wine/music/ambience/comfortable attire/etc.

. . . . . Pete

Do you really get good results that way? I can see doing that for the equivalent of snack food/fast food, where the intricacies of temperature and plating are not important. But I'm always amazed when fairly serious restaurants send their food out the front door to be eaten at a later point in time.

I guess if the money is good, the customer is always right!

Trycaviar and other high-end delivery services are extremely good in Manhattan.

 

[kirk wallace]

originally posted by MLipton:
To turn Kirk's point on its head (mind you, I'm not implying that Kirk has a pointy head), those of us who live in smaller communities as opposed to the restaurant meccas of NY/SF/LA and Chicago have many fewer dining options. So, going out to dinner comes down for us to a choice between 7 local restaurants and one wine bar that we enjoy enough to go to. Dining out comes down to taking a break from cooking at home, a task that mostly falls onto my shoulders (not that I mind) and eating foods that we can't easily prepare at home. Since we'll eat out a couple of times a week on average, the 6 times a year threshold is reached rather easily for several of those. Of those 8 places, only 6 would be considered "fine dining" and we'd have wine at only 5 of them.

Mark Lipton

Yes, I totally get that. It really is complementary to the idea I was mining. In small markets, my thought was, you either stop going out much at all because there just isn't enough choice (or quality) and you decide you can do "better" at home or you like eating out (for myriad reasons including the ones Prof L and Prof R have mentioned ) and if you are in a smaller market that nonetheless has a few good places, you frequent the places you like (and I mean frequent!). In a bigger market, if you are inclined to eat out a lot, you might sample widely, but not deeply (especially given the average life of most places). Or you might be like me, who, after sampling widely in my 20s and 30s, generally is skeptical of restaurants whose DNA you don't know.