SWR: Continuing Ruminations on Authenticity and Technological Innovation

Thank you for the invigorating discussion, Mark. Some of my favorite topics. I only wish that we could have this discussion IRL with a half case of Burgundy on the table. Partially because it would be so much easier to start dissecting the alleged greatness of The Beatles with Chris.
 
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Between the World Wars IIRC.

Mark Lipton[/quote]

You're gonna mystify PC with that. 20-22 years is a long time over which to stretch 2-3 L of wine.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Thanks for all the thoughtful responses, folks. I finally have a bit of time to formulate my thoughts.

Jonathan - I'd thought that the high/low art divide had fallen out of favor in academics, as Chris notes in his comments. Your larger point about wine being a commodity in a way that music isn't is certainly valid, so perhaps I should focus on the issue of craftsmanship in winemaking, in the same way that cooks, cheesemakers and woodworkers can be superior craftsmen (artisans?).

Todd - as a devoted Enophile, I understand your point all too well. This is why I focused on the purpose to which the technology was put, that of obliterating individual characteristics and making a more homogeneous "product."

Chris - I agree with you about the benefits of better plonk (or is that boatloads of cheap crap?) and of the slippery distinction between high art and low art. This is why I wanted to focus on the stylistic shifts that took place in Bordeaux and Napa, which were not at all about making better vin ordinaire but rather about regularizing very limited production and expensive wines. The musical analogy to that shift might be the formation of the band Asia in 1981, when 4 technically proficient prog rock veterans made the decision to form a band to make commercially successful music. I have no truck with such decisions, but they're motivated by commercial rather than artisanal considerations, don't you think?

Regarding the drinking habits of our predecessors, one need look no farther than AJ Liebling's Paris, where 2-3 L of wine person was considered perfectly normal.

Mark Lipton

Napa Valley and Bordeaux are very different animals, no? Bordeaux is the largest wine producing region in France. They crank out 900 million bottles a year these days (1.5% of the entire world's wine production, thanks Google), much of which is indeed pretty ordinaire. Hardly limited production. Only the top few percent of Chateaux command fancypants prices. Most of it is supermarket wine. There is no Napa Valley supermarket wine.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
At my local shop, when I ask for cooking wine, they invariably recommend inexpensive Bordeaux, both colors.

It's been awhile since I've had a Mouton-Cadet, but it used to be decent cheap wine, and it's still around ten bucks.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
Thank you for the invigorating discussion, Mark. Some of my favorite topics. I only wish that we could have this discussion IRL with a half case of Burgundy on the table. Partially because it would be so much easier to start dissecting the alleged greatness of The Beatles with Chris.

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As always, there are academics and academics. And the distinction always survives when one starts to discuss modes of production. In other words, whether one is an aesthete or a dyed in the wool, old-line base and superstructure Marxist, it is pretty hard not to ignore the important differences caused by a move from support by rich, private individuals and support by selling in a marketplace. Further, the development of a marketplace that will support what gets called in different periods high art and the different ways that marketplace works from the one where numbers of sales matter also counts. To speak in modern and non-aesthetic terms, literary criticism does not produce enough money from sales to support itself. It depends on subventions in various forms from universities. Because of the university financial input and its interests in things like scholarship that increases its standings in US News and World Report, academic literary criticism looks considerably different from what you read in your newspaper arts section, even if you are reading the NY Times. The same holds true for art and music and the modes by which they are supported. It's perfectly OK for you to prefer that distinction to the one between high and popular art as more descriptive and less elitist, but you'll still be working with the distinction I set out.
 
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