Whole Roast Chicken in NYC

[mark e]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pierre-Yves:
Coq Rico

I've heard they are excellent. And given that folks who live in Manhattan probably make more money than lesser mortals elsewhere, but $98-100 for a whole roast chicken?

Let's assume the restaurant is paying $25 per farm raised, organically fed chicken. That still is a pretty stiff markup. No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable. Really it is either Cornish Cross (an inferior bird) or Freedom Rangers, which have excellent flavor.

thats almost twice what Zuni Cafe charges for their roast chicken.

Almost, but not quite. (Zuni's is $58 right now).

But, crap sourcing on the Zuni bird, so it might be hard to compare.

don't they come from a local source? they used to. i always thought Zuni's roast chicken was very good.

No. Their chicken was pretty good, but a bit bland. The source might be local, but it isn't artisanal or a small farm.

"no" its not good? or "no" its not local? I'm not following you.

No, I don't believe it is local. Sorry not to be clearer. I don't know the purveyor(s) but it was industrial.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pierre-Yves:
Coq Rico

I've heard they are excellent. And given that folks who live in Manhattan probably make more money than lesser mortals elsewhere, but $98-100 for a whole roast chicken?

Let's assume the restaurant is paying $25 per farm raised, organically fed chicken. That still is a pretty stiff markup. No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable. Really it is either Cornish Cross (an inferior bird) or Freedom Rangers, which have excellent flavor.

thats almost twice what Zuni Cafe charges for their roast chicken.

Almost, but not quite. (Zuni's is $58 right now).

But, crap sourcing on the Zuni bird, so it might be hard to compare.

don't they come from a local source? they used to. i always thought Zuni's roast chicken was very good.

No. Their chicken was pretty good, but a bit bland. The source might be local, but it isn't artisanal or a small farm.

"no" its not good? or "no" its not local? I'm not following you.

No, I don't believe it is local. Sorry not to be clearer. I don't know the purveyor(s) but it was industrial. I have it on excellent authority from an unnamed source.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pierre-Yves:
Coq Rico

I've heard they are excellent. And given that folks who live in Manhattan probably make more money than lesser mortals elsewhere, but $98-100 for a whole roast chicken?

Let's assume the restaurant is paying $25 per farm raised, organically fed chicken. That still is a pretty stiff markup. No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable. Really it is either Cornish Cross (an inferior bird) or Freedom Rangers, which have excellent flavor.

thats almost twice what Zuni Cafe charges for their roast chicken.

Almost, but not quite. (Zuni's is $58 right now).

But, crap sourcing on the Zuni bird, so it might be hard to compare.

don't they come from a local source? they used to. i always thought Zuni's roast chicken was very good.

No. Their chicken was pretty good, but a bit bland. The source might be local, but it isn't artisanal or a small farm.

"no" its not good? or "no" its not local? I'm not following you.

No, I don't believe it is local. Sorry not to be clearer. I don't know the purveyor(s) but it was industrial. I have it on excellent authority from an unnamed source.

 

[Bill Lundstrom]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pierre-Yves:
Coq Rico

I've heard they are excellent. And given that folks who live in Manhattan probably make more money than lesser mortals elsewhere, but $98-100 for a whole roast chicken?

Let's assume the restaurant is paying $25 per farm raised, organically fed chicken. That still is a pretty stiff markup. No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable. Really it is either Cornish Cross (an inferior bird) or Freedom Rangers, which have excellent flavor.

thats almost twice what Zuni Cafe charges for their roast chicken.

Almost, but not quite. (Zuni's is $58 right now).

But, crap sourcing on the Zuni bird, so it might be hard to compare.

don't they come from a local source? they used to. i always thought Zuni's roast chicken was very good.

No. Their chicken was pretty good, but a bit bland. The source might be local, but it isn't artisanal or a small farm.

"no" its not good? or "no" its not local? I'm not following you.

No, I don't believe it is local. Sorry not to be clearer. I don't know the purveyor(s) but it was industrial.

The birds were definitely not industrial when Judy Rogers was alive. i'd be really surprised if they using industrial poultry now. and i'm using "industrial " to mean Perdue, Tyson, or some gigantic farm that Sysco trucks deliver to their doorstep.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Pierre-Yves:
Coq Rico

I've heard they are excellent. And given that folks who live in Manhattan probably make more money than lesser mortals elsewhere, but $98-100 for a whole roast chicken?

Let's assume the restaurant is paying $25 per farm raised, organically fed chicken. That still is a pretty stiff markup. No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable. Really it is either Cornish Cross (an inferior bird) or Freedom Rangers, which have excellent flavor.

thats almost twice what Zuni Cafe charges for their roast chicken.

Almost, but not quite. (Zuni's is $58 right now).

But, crap sourcing on the Zuni bird, so it might be hard to compare.

don't they come from a local source? they used to. i always thought Zuni's roast chicken was very good.

No. Their chicken was pretty good, but a bit bland. The source might be local, but it isn't artisanal or a small farm.

"no" its not good? or "no" its not local? I'm not following you.

No, I don't believe it is local. Sorry not to be clearer. I don't know the purveyor(s) but it was industrial.

The birds were definitely not industrial when Judy Rogers was alive. i'd be really surprised if they using industrial poultry now. and i'm using "industrial " to mean Perdue, Tyson, or some gigantic farm that Sysco trucks deliver to their doorstep.

The latter would be the case. Don't ask me to name names, though.

 

[Jay Miller]

The Zuni roast chicken recipe is my mainstay and the reason I don't bother ordering it out these days.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

I found Zuni's roast chicken underwhelming the one time I had it. Mark, your information is interesting.

Jonathan Waxman bangs up a good roast chicken at Barbuto.

I wish I knew more about breeds. When you say:

originally posted by mark e:
No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable.

Does that mean that they're unobtainable to the consumer? Or that restaurants don't serve them?

 

[Ben Hunting]

We roasted a Pick of the Pasture chicken from Dickson's last week for the first time and were pleased with it. In the past, it's usually been a cockerel or guinea hen from Dickson's. Like Jay we use the Zuni method.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

Cool. I really like the cockerels from Dickson's. They do fine work, and I'm sad not to get there more often.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I found Zuni's roast chicken underwhelming the one time I had it. Mark, your information is interesting.

Jonathan Waxman bangs up a good roast chicken at Barbuto.

I wish I knew more about breeds. When you say:

originally posted by mark e:
No one eats heritage breeds, though, because the feed conversion ratio is so unfavorable.

Does that mean that they're unobtainable to the consumer? Or that restaurants don't serve them?

They aren't unobtainable, but not even organic farms that raise meat chickens will raise them for meat because (a) it takes too long (b) it is too expensive owing to slow weight gain. Now, when I buy a stewing hen to make stock - they are extremely flavorful - it is often a heritage bird because it was laying hen until it stopped laying eggs. So if a farmer fed organic feed to a heritage breed they'd probably have to charge you $10/lb and they wouldn't be making much money. I'm not sure they necessarily taste better; I'd guess they are a bit tougher owing to more muscle use while running around the pasture foraging for bugs. Anyway, I'm going to start raising guineas this year. I've got plenty of pasture for them to forage on and they really taste great.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by mark e:
Farm-processed on conventional feed should be less than $6 to the consumer, but that farmer is making considerably more.

Your comment made me curious because I know the owners and they are highly likely to use organic feed. After hunting around for their original emails on the topic of FR, I found that they are:

originally written by Turkana Farms, June 2010:
A bit more on the chicken experiment. Neither of these breeds of birds, as it turns out, is a heritage breed. Both were developed specifically for the purpose of human consumption, as opposed to egg laying. According to an article in The Modern Homestead, The Freedom Rangers were developed in France in the 1960’s by the Hubbard Corporation to guarantee a high quality bird, satisfying “Label Rouge” standards, that could be raised within a pastured or free range production model. The Freedom Rangers have become a popular restaurant chicken in France. They are slow growing (12 weeks to get to 4 to 5 lbs), and are known to be excellent foragers and to enjoy grazing, thus making them much more fun to grow. Some detractors say their texture is on the chewy side, but their high culinary reputation is built on their flavor. Ours are now fully feathered and go outside tomorrow.

The Cornish crosses are much faster growing (7 weeks) and much more interested in grain than grass. Some growers complain that they are too lazy even to move to water in the heat, leading to huge die-offs in heat waves, but we’ve discovered that if you keep them shaded and make the water convenient they do fine.

Cornish crosses dependably produce the lushly large white breasts so many of us have come to crave. Though I’ve read some articles describing them as taste-challenged, I would personally dispute that assertion. We’ve enjoyed the flavor of ours immensely, as have many of our loyal customers. I would be willing to bet that if those growers dissatisfied with the flavor of their Cornish Crosses were to switch to the rich, varied sort of organic feed mix we get from Lightning Tree Farm they would be singing flavorful praises soon enough. Perhaps best of all, because of their efficiency in converting grain to meat, we can offer the Cornish Crosses cheaper than the Freedom Rangers.

 

[Chris Coad]

I'm certainly all in favor of lushly large white breasts despite being under-endowed myself, but going to a restaurant and paying a hundred bucks for a roast chicken is going on my shelf next to going to a restaurant and paying $75 for a grilled ribeye: something best done on somebody else's dime.

 

[Josh Fontaine]

Nomad, $89 with foie gras and black truffle brioche stuffed under the skin

 

[Peter Creasey]

I just now peeked at the end of this thread. Perhaps a dumb question, are those really high prices for roast chicken for a whole chicken or just a serving?

. . . . Pete

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I just now peeked at the end of this thread. Perhaps a dumb question, are those really high prices for roast chicken for a whole chicken or just a serving?

. . . . Pete

whole.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Josh Fontaine:
Nomad, $89 with foie gras and black truffle brioche stuffed under the skin

I haven't had it. Is it worth it?

 

[Brad Kane]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Josh Fontaine:
Nomad, $89 with foie gras and black truffle brioche stuffed under the skin

I haven't had it. Is it worth it?

I have friends that like it. I don't. The foie adds nothing but fat and they add bread crumbs under the skin to help absorb it and I don't love that texture and it's an unnecessary calorie addition. Plus, the price is silly. When they first opened, I believe it was $79 and word was that they were initially using Bell & Evan's chickens. I hear they're using "fancier" chickens now.

 

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by Brad Kane:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Josh Fontaine:
Nomad, $89 with foie gras and black truffle brioche stuffed under the skin

I haven't had it. Is it worth it?

I have friends that like it. I don't. The foie adds nothing but fat and they add bread crumbs under the skin to help absorb it and I don't love that texture and it's an unnecessary calorie addition. Plus, the price is silly. When they first opened, I believe it was $79 and word was that they were initially using Bell & Evan's chickens. I hear they're using "fancier" chickens now.

For me the room is so noisy that I'm never going to find out.

 

[georg lauer]

originally posted by Brad Kane:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Josh Fontaine:
Nomad, $89 with foie gras and black truffle brioche stuffed under the skin

I haven't had it. Is it worth it?

I have friends that like it. I don't. The foie adds nothing but fat and they add bread crumbs under the skin to help absorb it and I don't love that texture and it's an unnecessary calorie addition. Plus, the price is silly. When they first opened, I believe it was $79 and word was that they were initially using Bell & Evan's chickens. I hear they're using "fancier" chickens now.

I thought it was pretty good, but not stellar. And agree about the foie gras: just as with bacon, not everything is better with it.

 

[kirk wallace]

the foie makes the skin spongy. i am not a fan, but the fricassee of the dark meat that comes in the small saucepan on the side is heaven. but hard to justify the cost. the carrot is cheaper and better.