TN: At Asher's: Cune, Chave, Giacosa, Clos des Papes

B

Brad Kane

Brad Kane
Hung out at Asher Rubinsteins last night with Greg dal Piaz and Michel Abood. We drank some wine and ate some chicken.

Cheers,

Brad

1970 Cune- Rioja Gran Reserva, Via Real
From half bottle with a great fill. Shows a beautiful, pure garnet color. Aromatically it was initially dominated by a more tertiary, leather and worn wood profile, but after open in the glass an hour or two, a beautiful desiccated red fruit/caramelized sugar sweetness arose. On the palate it shows both freshness as well as a structure thats tiring. Theres some upfront strawberry/cherry fruit with plenty sandalwood and leather flavors. A touch of VA and some fade on the finish. Quite satisfying. Call it a B+
from the half bottle, though 750s should undoubtedly show fresher.

1996 J. L. Chave- Hermitage
Aye carumba! What a nose! Just in your face and gorgeous, full of beef blood, iron, strawberries, raspberries with spicy and floral hints. As for taste, Ive always liked, not loved this wine as I find the acidity this vintage to be a wee bit too high for my tastes. However, a bottle I had in San Francisco this past summer showed the wine to have been nicely integrated with the acidity somewhat tamer. This bottle was bit more forceful and less integrated than that one and, once again, I found the acidity just a bit more persnickety for me to fully embrace the wine, though it is indeed very enjoyable. Like flavors as aromas. Id still wait on these a little longer. A-

1997 Bruno Giacosa- Barbaresco, Santo Stefano
Loved the sweetness on the nose of this one with a nice play of ripe red fruits with a sweet and spicy mace note. Plenty of tar and flowers to boot. A bit too youthful at the moment and the wine shows some of the vintages characteristic of unripe tannins on the slightly coarse finish. Needs time to develop, but Im doubtful the tannins will lose their coarseness. Low A-.

2006 Clos des Papes- Chateaneuf du Pape
This wine is simply abundant. Theres a lot there and theres a lot of the a lot. Where to begin? Well, for starters, its so abundant that its not really showing all that it has. In time there will be a lot more. Right now its pretty dense, though not heavy and full of brash young fruit, licorice and spice and flowers. Thickly textured and perhaps a little overwhelming, though in a good way. Consider yourself very lucky if you have this in your cellar. Id love to try this again in twelve years. Well, any time, really, but especially in twelve years. A/A- now with A+ potential.
 
Consider yourself very lucky if you have this in your cellar. Id love to try this again in twelve years. Well, any time, really, but especially in twelve years. A/A- now with A+ potential.

[/quote]
? When is base 12 used for wine aging?? Not 5 or 10 but 12??
 
originally posted by drssouth:
Consider yourself very lucky if you have this in your cellar. Id love to try this again in twelve years. Well, any time, really, but especially in twelve years. A/A- now with A+ potential.
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? When is base 12 used for wine aging?? Not 5 or 10 but 12??[/quote]

For Chateauneuf du Papes. A symbolic recognition of the apostles.
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by drssouth:
When is base 12 used for wine aging?? Not 5 or 10 but 12??
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I happen to think Clos des Papes really start to sing from age 12 on.
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I would say that for CNP in general. 10 is often a little short.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Wine, being an ancient beverage, seems to use the Sumerian number system where bases 10 and 60 existed side by side.
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Otto,
I'd thought that Sumerian mathematics employed various bases (12, 60, 360), all based on the product of small integers:

2*3*4 = 12
2*3*4*5 = 60
2*3*4*5*6 = 360

Is this incorrect? If so, I've been cursing Sumerians (in Hittite, for shits and giggles) for our muddled units of measurement needlessly.

Mark Lipton
 
Yup, that's kind of wrong, but don't stop cursing yet. The system is sexagesimal (possibly because of its factorization capabilities), so up to 60 everything is like in a decimal system. It certainly is not a 12-based system - there is no evidence that they would have counted anything in groups of 12 that I know of, but rather it is a common fraction (1/5th of 60) in texts dealing e.g. with surface area or just simply a number 12 in the decimal system used for everyday counting. They did however use groups of 10 until 60 and then used groups of 60 and 10, so I disagree with the commonly held view that it is a sexagesimal system, because it looks to me like both sexagesimal and decimal.

Good overview here from a professional mathematician.
 
Well, aside from all Sumerian numerology contests, the wines were quite nice. I think Brad's notes are spot-on, the Rioja was nice and improved slightly with air but was definitely not a keeper. The other wines were just gorgeous, and if memory serves me (which it rarely does, impudent devil that it is) I would grade them similarly.

Quite a nice way to spend an evening.
Cheers!
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by drssouth:
When is base 12 used for wine aging?? Not 5 or 10 but 12??
Click to expand...

I happen to think Clos des Papes really start to sing from age 12 on.
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're joking or not. I mean, you should be.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Yup, that's kind of wrong, but don't stop cursing yet. The system is sexagesimal (possibly because of its factorization capabilities), so up to 60 everything is like in a decimal system. It certainly is not a 12-based system - there is no evidence that they would have counted anything in groups of 12 that I know of, but rather it is a common fraction (1/5th of 60) in texts dealing e.g. with surface area or just simply a number 12 in the decimal system used for everyday counting. They did however use groups of 10 until 60 and then used groups of 60 and 10, so I disagree with the commonly held view that it is a sexagesimal system, because it looks to me like both sexagesimal and decimal.
Click to expand...

I actually almost understand that!

And yeah, this thread is really taking off. Can we move the florescent wine discussion to here? Can mathematics be applied to florescent wine? It couldn't hurt, at least.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Yup, that's kind of wrong, but don't stop cursing yet. The system is sexagesimal (possibly because of its factorization capabilities), so up to 60 everything is like in a decimal system. It certainly is not a 12-based system - there is no evidence that they would have counted anything in groups of 12 that I know of, but rather it is a common fraction (1/5th of 60) in texts dealing e.g. with surface area or just simply a number 12 in the decimal system used for everyday counting. They did however use groups of 10 until 60 and then used groups of 60 and 10, so I disagree with the commonly held view that it is a sexagesimal system, because it looks to me like both sexagesimal and decimal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation, Otto. I missed this as I was on holiday when you posted it and just unearthed this thread. I'll revise my opinion of those clever Sumerians forthwith. I knew that I should've signed up for that cuneiform class in high school.

Mark Lipton
 
I might have to revise what I said about there being no duodecimal system. The hours of days and the number of months in most years are Mesopotamian vestiges.(Sometimes a 13th month needed to be added, and it had the symbol of a raven. The month was considered anomalous and quite hostile to the normal order of things, which explains why the number 13 and the raven are considered ill omens even today). The problem is that I don't remember a single instance of 12 being used in a recurring fashion (as say with the 24 hour clock). But then why divide the day, night and year into 12? I'm a bit confused about the duodecimal aspect. But anyway, you might well have been right that it existed in a limited usage alongside the decimal and sexagesimal systems.
 
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