XP: Written Word/English Language&Reading Material

People give me dough (sometimes) to move the words around in ways that are easily understandable and in some cases bestow at least an impression of a classy mien for clients (and of course, when it's at the behest of a food client, that usually means finding them an appropriate chow mein)(how's that for using the ol' noodle?)

And in all of this, I have yet to "dialogue" and would rather drink Caymus than "liase" with someone. I mean, wtf, just because other people turn miscellaneous words into verbs doesn't mean that _I_ have to, does it? I don't "Citation CJ3+" or "Bentley" from one place to the other, even if I have "gone to hell in a handbasket" once or twice in the past. Sure, language is a living thing, but our use of it reflects what was beaten into us by whichever nun was teaching us the proper usage (and BTW, "use" has special dispensation to be used as either a verb or a noun, while "usage" is legally restricted to nounal purposes).

originally posted by Rahsaan:

BUT, when my favorite rappers/poets/authors (see James Joyce) play with language those ways, it is inspiring and beautiful.
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I agree. Joyce's "$traight Outta Dublin" was not only a seminal album in my development as a conceptual musician, but its influence continues today on the entire Irish rap scene (check out the work of Mythill Grim or Kojaque). It was difficult getting past his lame-ass beef with George Bernard Shaw. It's not like they were doing drive-bys of their rival's atelier or anything, but the fact that GBS received a Nobel prize, an Academy Award AND a Grammy (for his "Thug in the Pub," which wasn't really all that good) galled Joyce immensely. The last years of his life were spent wallowing in self-pity and writing restaurant reviews (under a nom de plume) for The New Yorker.
 
Confirming per google...

liaise - verb
establish a working relationship, typically in order to cooperate on a matter of mutual concern.

. . . . . Pete
 
So the OED lists dialogue as both a transitive and an intransitive voice, going back to the 15th century. In each case, the definition is to talk or to converse. And the contemporary transitive use is described as U.S. slang. None of them discuss any special intonations. Neither do your citations of the more common noun, persuade me that more common verbs like discuss, communicate,etc. in any way lose meaning that would demand verbing the noun.

Liase is so completely a product of military and business speak as to be almost completely beyond the pale.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
varietal as a noun
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'Varietal' is a noun, that's the point of the complaint!
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I'm not sure how to take Jeff's riposte. Varietal, as a noun, refers to wine consisting of--and, I would say, marketed as--made of a single variety of grape. Referring to a grape variety as a varietal is the atrocity. But I don't see why the proper usage as a noun is the point of the complaint. Perhaps I'm missing something.
 
WHY ENGLISH IS SO HARD ...

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox becomes oxen, not oxes.
One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three would be those,
Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.
We speak of a brother and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
But imagine the feminine: she, shis and shim!
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-ANONYMOUS

And then, "Where is my tutu? (I forget, do I have one...or do I have two tutus? Do you have a tutu, too?)".

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

WHY ENGLISH IS SO HARD ...

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox becomes oxen, not oxes.
One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three would be those,
Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.
We speak of a brother and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
But imagine the feminine: she, shis and shim!
Click to expand...
-ANONYMOUS

And then, "Where is my tutu? (I forget, do I have one...or do I have two tutus? Do you have a tutu, too?)".

. . . . . Pete
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this passes as scholastic grammatical rigor?

it is a great example of doggerel.
 
The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder Hardcover by David Grann (Author)

#1 NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER From the author of Killers of the Flower Moon, a page-turning story of shipwreck, survival, and savagery, culminating in a court martial that reveals a shocking truth. The powerful narrative reveals the deeper meaning of the events on The Wager, showing that it was not only the captain and crew who ended up on trial, but the very idea of empire.

A Best Book of the Year: The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker, TIME, Smithsonian, NPR, Vulture, Kirkus Reviews

“Riveting...Reads like a thriller, tackling a multilayered history—and imperialism—with gusto.” —Time

"A tour de force of narrative nonfiction.” —The Wall Street Journal
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Highly recommended.

......Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder Hardcover by David Grann (Author)

#1 NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER From the author of Killers of the Flower Moon, a page-turning story of shipwreck, survival, and savagery, culminating in a court martial that reveals a shocking truth. The powerful narrative reveals the deeper meaning of the events on The Wager, showing that it was not only the captain and crew who ended up on trial, but the very idea of empire.

A Best Book of the Year: The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker, TIME, Smithsonian, NPR, Vulture, Kirkus Reviews

“Riveting...Reads like a thriller, tackling a multilayered history—and imperialism—with gusto.” —Time

"A tour de force of narrative nonfiction.” —The Wall Street Journal
Click to expand...

Highly recommended.

......Pete
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already read it.
 
originally posted by MLipton:

It’s quite understandable, Pete. As Stephen Pinker explains in The Language Instinct (well worth reading IMO), languages evolve to become more regular with time. In this case, we’re evolving away from an earlier system that conjugated verbs by modifying stems (think take vs took or stand vs stood) toward a system where past tense is created by the suffix “-ed.” Children learning grammar make this mistake commonly since, as Pinker points out, they learn language through the application of grammatical rules.

Mark Lipton
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oh dear god no.

fwiw, someone we know snuck some actual data in here (buggered if i can make the url function on this bored work any more):

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2937

fb. (next thing you'll be talking about phlogiston and vapors)
 
originally posted by fatboy:
originally posted by MLipton:

It’s quite understandable, Pete. As Stephen Pinker explains in The Language Instinct (well worth reading IMO), languages evolve to become more regular with time. In this case, we’re evolving away from an earlier system that conjugated verbs by modifying stems (think take vs took or stand vs stood) toward a system where past tense is created by the suffix “-ed.” Children learning grammar make this mistake commonly since, as Pinker points out, they learn language through the application of grammatical rules.

Mark Lipton
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oh dear god no.

fwiw, someone we know snuck some actual data in here (buggered if i can make the url function on this bored work any more):

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2937

fb. (next thing you'll be talking about phlogiston and vapors)
Click to expand...
Are you saying that languages don't evolve to be more regular? You are right, of course, that sneaked/snuck is an example of the opposite. But is it an outlier or normal? Without any data, it is my sense that most newly coined verbs in the two languages I speak follow the most usual forms of conjugation. Thus, for instance, to google in French is googler and not googlir, or, god help us, googlre. But--truly--I'd be happy to be shown I'm wrong.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
originally posted by MLipton:

It’s quite understandable, Pete. As Stephen Pinker explains in The Language Instinct (well worth reading IMO), languages evolve to become more regular with time. In this case, we’re evolving away from an earlier system that conjugated verbs by modifying stems (think take vs took or stand vs stood) toward a system where past tense is created by the suffix “-ed.” Children learning grammar make this mistake commonly since, as Pinker points out, they learn language through the application of grammatical rules.

Mark Lipton
Click to expand...

oh dear god no.

fwiw, someone we know snuck some actual data in here (buggered if i can make the url function on this bored work any more):

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2937

fb. (next thing you'll be talking about phlogiston and vapors)
Click to expand...

Fascinating discussion there. Thanks! Like Prof loesberg, I remain cornfuzzled on this topic. Within my lifetime, I have witnessed the decline of pled as it gradually gets replaced by pleaded. So, is there not an overall drift to greater regularity? Is there some other, larger pattern of which I’m unaware?

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by fatboy: buggered if i can make the url function on this bored work any more
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Here you go...

URLtext.jpg
. . . . . Pete
 
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