XP: Written Word/English Language&Reading Material

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Quoting Winston Churchill on the correct use of split infinitives:

"This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."
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There is nothing correct in your post, Pete.

The problem at hand is whether it is permissible to end a sentence with a preposition. A split infinitive, as the name suggests, is when the two parts of a verb, in the infinitive form, are not adjacent in the sentence.

Finally, there is no documentary evidence that Churchill actually said this sentence or anything like it. While it certainly sounds like him, that is not evidence.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Quoting Winston Churchill on the correct use of split infinitives:

"This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."
Click to expand...
There is nothing correct in your post, Pete.

The problem at hand is whether it is permissible to end a sentence with a preposition. A split infinitive, as the name suggests, is when the two parts of a verb, in the infinitive form, are not adjacent in the sentence.

Finally, there is no documentary evidence that Churchill actually said this sentence or anything like it. While it certainly sounds like him, that is not evidence.
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Not only is the attribution likely spurious, but the example itself is a form of cheating, as was pointed out in Language Log.

Mark Lipton

(That being said, Churchill has an enviable collection of aprocryphal quotes, right up there with noted wits GB Shaw and Oscar Wilde)
 
All the corrections of Pete, except the one about attribution are valid. Aprocryphal attributions are the only ones worthy of attention. As Whistler responded to Wilde when Wilde said he wished he had said something Whistler had just said, "you will, Oscar, you will." Or maybe neither of them said either thing, but the attention wasted on caring about that might better be spent enjoying the bon mot.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
All the corrections of Pete, except the one about attribution are valid. Aprocryphal attributions are the only ones worthy of attention. As Whistler responded to Wilde when Wilde said he wished he had said something Whistler had just said, "you will, Oscar, you will." Or maybe neither of them said either thing, but the attention wasted on caring about that might better be spent enjoying the bon mot.
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As Lincoln said, "Never trust anything you read on the Internet"

Mark Lipton
 
The alt.english.usage FAQ states that the story originated with an anecdote in Sir Ernest Gowers’ Plain Words (1948). Supposedly an editor had clumsily rearranged one of Churchill’s sentences to avoid ending it in a preposition, and the Prime Minister, very proud of his style, scribbled this note in reply: “This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.” The American Heritage Book of English Usage agrees.
The FAQ goes on to say that the Oxford Companion to the English Language (no edition cited) states that the original was “This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.”
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Churchill on Prepositions

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
All the corrections of Pete, except the one about attribution are valid. Aprocryphal attributions are the only ones worthy of attention. As Whistler responded to Wilde when Wilde said he wished he had said something Whistler had just said, "you will, Oscar, you will." Or maybe neither of them said either thing, but the attention wasted on caring about that might better be spent enjoying the bon mot.
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As Lincoln said, "Never trust anything you read on the Internet"

Mark Lipton
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Not quite a Wellerism, yet, but surely it could be worked up into one.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
All the corrections of Pete, except the one about attribution are valid. Aprocryphal attributions are the only ones worthy of attention. As Whistler responded to Wilde when Wilde said he wished he had said something Whistler had just said, "you will, Oscar, you will." Or maybe neither of them said either thing, but the attention wasted on caring about that might better be spent enjoying the bon mot.
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As Lincoln said, "Never trust anything you read on the Internet"

Mark Lipton
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Not quite a Wellerism, yet, but surely it could be worked up into one.
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Ooh, good one, Jonathan. I had to Google it.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Ooh, good one, Jonathan. I had to Google it.
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I did, too. I'm familiar with the Tom Swifty variant. ("Oh, no! The toothpaste has fallen on the ground," Tom said, crestfallen.)
 
Interesting...Tom Swifty from Wikipedia:

The standard syntax is for the quoted sentence to be first, followed by the description of the act of speaking.
A few examples

"I'd like to stop by the mausoleum," Tom said cryptically.
"That doesn't add up" said Tom nonplussed.
"I've eaten too much white sauce" said Tom ruefully.
"This may be the worst case of dry rot I've ever seen" said Tom flawlessly.
"I'll have a martini, easy on the vermouth" said Tom, drily (dryly).
"This limestone has metamorphosed!," the geologist marbled.
"Who left the toilet seat down?" Tom asked peevishly.
"Pass me the shellfish," said Tom crabbily.
"That's the last time I'll stick my arm into a lion's mouth," the lion-tamer said off-handedly.
"I unclogged the drain with a vacuum cleaner," said Tom succinctly.
"I might as well be dead," Tom croaked.
"We just struck oil!" Tom gushed.
"It's freezing," Tom muttered icily.
"They had to amputate them both at the ankles," said Tom defeatedly.
"The Battle of the Nile? A lot of fun!" said Lord Nelson disarmingly.
"Hurry up and get to the back of the ship!" Tom said sternly.
"Happy Birthday," Tom said presently.
"Walk this way," Tom said stridently.
"I stole the gold," Tom confessed guiltily (giltily).
"I've got 1760 yards of paddy fields," said Tom with a wry smile (rice mile)
"Bingo," Tom exclaimed winningly.
"You ever seen one this big?" Tom bragged cockily.
"Where did all the carpet on the steps go?" asked Tom with a blank stare (stair).
"I used to be a criminal pilot," he ex-plained con-descendingly.
"I have no flowers," Tom said lackadaisically.
"I know not which groceries to purchase," Tom said listlessly.
"I'd like my money back, and some," said Tom with interest.
"I decided to come back to the group," Tom rejoined.
"This pizza place is great!" Tom exclaimed saucily.
"Do you write fairy tales as well?" asked the brothers, grimly
"This tooth extraction could take for ever," said Tom with infinite wisdom.
"I love hot dogs," said Tom with relish.
"The exit is right there," Tom pointed out.
"My therapist told me I suffer from multiple personality disorder," said Tom, being frank.
"If you want me, I shall be in the attic," Tom said, loftily
"My favorite authors are Slaughter and Hemingway," Tom said frankly and earnestly.

Tom Swifties can be conveniently converted to limericks. An example of this by O.V. Michaelsen (Ove Ofteness):

Tom Swift, he was miffed. Oh, and how,
And admits having fits, even NOW.
“Don’t lend me more yarn—
I can’t mend worth a darn,”
Said Tom, as he knitted his brow.
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. . . . . Pete
 
People, people,
Here's a Wellerism that many of you have seen if you googled it because it's on Wikipedia. There definition is not quite right. A Wellerism is some bit of normal speech given a twist by the attribution at the end.

"Wery glad to see you, indeed, and hope our acquaintance may be a long 'un, as the gen'l'm'n said to the fi' pun' note."

Most all of them are actually funny. As humor goes, Tom Swifties are not in this league. The Mark's Lincoln attribution is getting there, but hasn't quite made it.
 
"Everyone to his own taste," the woman said as she kissed her cow.

"We'd better rehearse this," said the undertaker after the coffin had fallen out of the vehicle.

"It's all coming back to me now," Captain Smith remarked after he spat into the wind.

"Eureka!" Archimedes said to the skunk.

"Capital punishment," the boy said when his teacher seated him among the girls.

"I've been to see an old flame," the young man said when he returned from Vesuvius.

"I hope I made myself clear," said the water as it passed through the filter.

"That's my mission in life," said the monk as he pointed to his monastery.

"My business is looking good," said the model.
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Wellerisms

. . . . . Pete
 
jpcmonky.jpg
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
And since most words in Italian end with a vowel, when Italians speak English, they tend to add a vowel to the ending of words.
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In a geeky sorta way, this relates to a story I tell in class about the etymology of the name benzene (cribbed from I Asimov's great essay "you too can speak Gaelic"). The source of it is the sap of a Javanese tree, purchased as "Luban Java" by Venetian traders in the spice markets of 12th C Damascus. The rest, as they say, is history.

Mark Lipton
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It must have been 40 years since I read "You Too Can Speak Gaelic", and I had forgotten all about it until I read this. Now that I think about it I can still remember the story about Asimov singing para-dimethyl-amino-benzaldehyde to the tune of the "Irish Washerwoman" (I think it was) and someone mistaking it for the "original Gaelic". Thanks for bringing back that memory!
 
It is almost common now to see it said, "Let's lay low" or "I want to lay low" or the like.

It makes one wonder who low is.

. . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

"Everyone to his own taste," the woman said as she kissed her cow.

"We'd better rehearse this," said the undertaker after the coffin had fallen out of the vehicle.

"It's all coming back to me now," Captain Smith remarked after he spat into the wind.

"Eureka!" Archimedes said to the skunk.

"Capital punishment," the boy said when his teacher seated him among the girls.

"I've been to see an old flame," the young man said when he returned from Vesuvius.

"I hope I made myself clear," said the water as it passed through the filter.

"That's my mission in life," said the monk as he pointed to his monastery.

"My business is looking good," said the model.
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Wellerisms

. . . . . Pete
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Named after the manservant in Dickens's Pickwick Papers, one imagines.
 
Just finished Clementine: The Life of Mrs. Winston Churchill by Sonia Purnell. Alternately tedious and fascinating, a worthwhile read.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg: Using the a subjective case pronoun with a preposition, as in between he and I, doesn't come naturally. It's an attempt to sound learned gone wrong.
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Jonathan, it would be interesting to hear you expound on this statement, "It's an attempt to sound learned gone wrong."

It seems that you may be saying that this (offensive [to some folks, at least]) usage of improper grammar is intentional. The people I see/hear doing this appear to be oblivious...and uncaring.

Your thoughts?

. . . . Pete
 
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