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A Saumur Champigny worthy of mention
- Thread starter BJ
- Start date
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I don't recall that bottling but I used to drink quite a bit of Dom. Nerleux, early in my wine days.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
I keep trying to find a pun about Domaine Netflix in here, but it's not happening.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I don't shop at that particular store anymore, and I don't even know whether they still carry it.originally posted by BJ:
Meaning you're over it now? Just too cool for Domaine de Nerleux are ya?
robert ames
robert ames
anybody here dabbled with wine from guiberteau? relatively new guy in saumur champigny. white and red, including holdings in breze. "understudied" at clos rougeard. imported to the u.s. by becky wasserman.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
The search engine seems to know a little.
kirk wallace
kirk wallace
His wines are popular on PDX resto wine lists, and in NYC too. I've liked the ones I've tried; the more basic cuvées more.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
robert ames
robert ames
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
red and white?
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Checking... they do not. They have Guiberteau, Germain, Roches Neuves, and Sanzay.originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I don't shop at that particular store anymore, and I don't even know whether they still carry it.originally posted by BJ:
Meaning you're over it now? Just too cool for Domaine de Nerleux are ya?
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
red and white?
Both, though the oak seems more irritating in the whites. But, besides the flavor and textural effects of oak, I find it a bit annoying that they don't seem to have an independent esthetic, and just (try to) follow the leader.
robert ames
robert ames
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
red and white?
Both, though the oak seems more irritating in the whites. But, besides the flavor and textural effects of oak, I find it a bit annoying that they don't seem to have an independent esthetic, and just (try to) follow the leader.
their basic bottlings are tank aged.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
red and white?
Both, though the oak seems more irritating in the whites. But, besides the flavor and textural effects of oak, I find it a bit annoying that they don't seem to have an independent esthetic, and just (try to) follow the leader.
their basic bottlings are tank aged.
Yes, and they were the only ones I found palatable (there may be reviews here). My general point is that any producer who raises the % of new oak as the cuvées rise in "distinction" is not the kind of producer I'd like to support.
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
red and white?
Both, though the oak seems more irritating in the whites. But, besides the flavor and textural effects of oak, I find it a bit annoying that they don't seem to have an independent esthetic, and just (try to) follow the leader.
their basic bottlings are tank aged.
Yes, and they were the only ones I found palatable (there may be reviews here). My general point is that any producer who raises the % of new oak as the cuvées rise in "distinction" is not the kind of producer I'd like to support.
You're of course entitled to your own preferences, O., but a number of my favorite Burgundy producers do up the new oak percentage for their Grand Cru bottlings. I believe that the premise is that the deeper fruit and longer lifettime of the GC wines allowed the oak to fully integrate in a way that village-level wines don't. Of course, I can rarely afford GC wines these days, so it's a bit of a moot point chez nous.
Mark PC Lipton
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
This rules out Rougeard itself. (And most of Burgundy and Bordeaux)originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Yes, and they were the only ones I found palatable (there may be reviews here). My general point is that any producer who raises the % of new oak as the cuvées rise in "distinction" is not the kind of producer I'd like to support.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I tried many and found them too oaky, especially the fancier cuvées. So now I pass.
red and white?
Both, though the oak seems more irritating in the whites. But, besides the flavor and textural effects of oak, I find it a bit annoying that they don't seem to have an independent esthetic, and just (try to) follow the leader.
their basic bottlings are tank aged.
Yes, and they were the only ones I found palatable (there may be reviews here). My general point is that any producer who raises the % of new oak as the cuvées rise in "distinction" is not the kind of producer I'd like to support.
You're of course entitled to your own preferences, O., but a number of my favorite Burgundy producers do up the new oak percentage for their Grand Cru bottlings. I believe that the premise is that the deeper fruit and longer lifettime of the GC wines allowed the oak to fully integrate in a way that village-level wines don't. Of course, I can rarely afford GC wines these days, so it's a bit of a moot point chez nous.
Mark PC Lipton
Yes, but why use non-neutral oak at all? I think we all understand that people have grown accustomed to the flavor and textural effects of what was initially devised as a storage and transportation vessel, and in the process have grown to like these effects. But oak does not come from the vine, and is just like adding cinnamon, cardamom, or any other extraneous substance which people wouldn't dream of doing. It also interferes with the grail of terroir expression, even when fully "integrated," meaning that it has altered the wine in ways that are no longer obvious. At the end of the day, oak is arguably far more interventionist than adding sugar, acid or SO2, all of which at least occur naturally in grapes.
I used to enjoy well-integrated oak as much as the next guy, but just as you can acquire a taste for it, you can also unacquire it, especially if your adopted esthetics derive from your adopted ethics (of minimal intervention). And, not trivially, it does much good to the wallet to no longer subsidize NFO in Rougeard and mainstream Bordeaux and Burgundy.
There's an ocean of interesting "sans-nfo" wine to explore, mostly affordable, and it feels good to put money where one's mouth is (or is going to be, hopefully).
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
I don't see how you can support the use of used oak barrels without accepting the use of new oak barrels. Where do you think the used barrels come from?
Some producers use new oak for its flavors. Some prefer it for reasons of hygiene. Some would accept your cinnamon analogy and some wouldn't.
I don't view the "grail of terroir expression" as limited to what "come from the vine." The point of winemaking and wine-aging is a transformation of what comes from the vine. Elevage is as much a part of wine as the growing season. Oak barrels have long been essential to the traditional expression of most French wines and that's part of the grail of terroir expression to me. Haut-Brion in steel tank wouldn't be the same Haut-Brion anymore.
Some producers use new oak for its flavors. Some prefer it for reasons of hygiene. Some would accept your cinnamon analogy and some wouldn't.
I don't view the "grail of terroir expression" as limited to what "come
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
One can buy used oak barrels without using them oneself. It's a common enough practice. Of course someone else will have had to use them, but that's their concern. If per mirable, no one wanted to use new oak ever again, I'm sure there would be other ways to neutralize them.