TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)

[Jeff Grossman]

This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Walkaround event so only brief impressions and [-3 to 3] ratings.

Pepiere 2016 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "La Pepie" - [2], lemony, easy quaff
Pepiere 2016 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "Les Gras Moutons" - [0]
Pepiere 2012 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "Ch. Thebaud" "Clos des Morines" - [0], cheese aroma, I know Jay likes this one

Tarlant NV Champagne Brut Nature "Zero" - [1], 2008 base, would make a good daily wine (if your life includes champagne every day)
Tarlant 2003 Champagne Brut Nature "La Matinale" - [2], excellent acidity, they waited 11 years to take it off the lees
Tarlant NV Champagne Brut Nature "Cuvee Louis" - [1], 2000 base, starting to mellow and turn more vinous

Horiot 2012 Rose des Riceys "En Barmont" - [2], amazing rose
Horiot, Olivier NV Champagne Extra Brut "Metisse Noir et Blancs" - [0], 2013 base
Horiot, Olivier 2010 Champagne Brut "Seve" Rose de Saignee - [1], shows some of the zip and grace of the still rose

Koehler-Ruprecht 2015 Weissburgunder Kabinett Trocken - [0]
Koehler-Ruprecht 2012 Kallstadter Saumagen Riesling Spatlese Trocken - [2], not showing much charm today yet it is very long and broadens as you hold it in your mouth, worth getting but hold
Koehler-Ruprecht 2016 Pinot Noir Kabinett Trocken Rose - [0]

Luyt, Louis-Antoine 2017 Pipeno Blanco - [-1], every mission grape you ever heard of, made fast-fast-fast, rather muscatty
Luyt, Louis-Antoine 2017 Pipeno Carrizal - [0], the red equivalent, grippy from the long skin contact, might relax with a year or two
Luyt, Louis-Antoine 2014 Valle del Bueno Cruchon Pinot Noir - [1], also tough now but clearly has the stuffing

Orsi (Vigneto San Vito) NV Pignoletto Frizzante Emilia Sui Lievitti - [-1], made in the bottle, never disgorged, rather cidery
Orsi (Vigneto San Vito) NV Colli Bolognese Posca Bianco - [0], made solera style using wines since 2011 (not oxidative)
Orsi (Vigneto San Vito) NV Colli Bolognese Posca Rosso - [1], ditto, approx. half barbera and the rest various Bordeaux grapes (barbera dominates the palate), nice quaff

Monte Dall' Ora 2013 Valpolicella Classico Superiore "Camporenza" - [2], beautiful, cherries and whiff of pomander
Monte Dall' Ora 2009 Valpolicella Classico Superiore Ripasso "Sausto" - [2], a better vineyard, some ripasso so richer, more structured
Monte Dall' Ora 2008 Amarone della Valpolicella Classico "Stropa" - [1], fine and delicate, a little richer yet

Foradori 2013 Vignetti delle Dolomiti Fontanasanta "Nosiola" - [1], rare native grape with thin skins so they use long maceration in amphorae to get the most flavor out of it, honeyed, still mild
Foradori 2014 Vigneti delle Dolomiti Teroldego - [1], very structured wine, not such a good year so this contains grapes declassified from one of their better vineyards
Foradori 2010 Teroldego Rotaliano "Morei" - [1], very pretty wine, open and harmonious, also made in amphorae

Boulard, Francis NV Champagne Extra Brut "Les Murgiers" - [1], normal champagne
Luneau-Papin 2015 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "Terre de Pierre" - [1], lightweight
Villemade, Herve 2016 Cheverny Blanc - [1]
Barth 2014 Alsace Riesling - [1], mouthwatering, steely
Clemens Busch 2015 Mosel Riesling Trocken - [1], fruitier than the Barth
Immich-Batterieberg 2015 Mosel "C. A. I." Riesling Trocken - [1]
Pinon 2015 Vouvray Sec - [1]
Mosse 2015 Anjou Blanc "Le Rouchefer" - [1]
Pineau, Julien 2016 Vin de France "Sucettes d'Aunis" - [1], maybe better than the last vintage

Bonhomme, Pierre-Olivier 2016 Vin de France "le Telquel" - [1], gamay and grolleau
Tue-Boeuf 2016 Touraine "La Butte" - [1], gamay
Coudert (Clos de la Roilette) 2016 Fleurie - [1], fresh, bright, light
Descombes, Georges 2015 Regnie - [1], more substance
Terres Dorees (Jean-Paul Brun) 2015 Cote de Brouilly - [2], weightiest of the three wines, shows very Burgundian in this crowd
Richaud 2015 Cotes du Rhone "Terres d'Aigles" - [1], also quite bright and rather Beaujolais like!
Noussan 2014 Vallee d'Aoste Torrette - [0], this bottle is a tad buttery
Montesecondo 2015 IGT Rosso Toscana - [1]
Sanguineto 2014 Vino Nobile di Montepulciano "Sanguineto" - [1], nervy, the story is that the maker is the real deal
Nusserhof (Heinrich Mayr) 2012 Vino Rosso "Elda" - [1], taut, even severe in the mouth but haunting aromatics

Wines not tasted...
- La Stoppa 2012 IGT Emilia "Ageno"
- La Stoppa 2014 IGT Emilia Trebbiolo Rosso
- La Stoppa 2009 IGT Emilia Barbera della Stoppa
- Closel (Chateau des Vaults) 2015 Savennieres "La Jalousie"
- De Bartoli Marsala Superiore Riserva "10 anni"

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Walkaround event so only brief impressions and [-3 to 3] ratings.

Pepiere 2016 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "La Pepie" - [2], lemony, easy quaff
Pepiere 2016 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "Les Gras Moutons" - [0]
Pepiere 2012 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "Ch. Thebaud" "Clos des Morines" - [0], cheese aroma, I know Jay likes this one

Tarlant NV Champagne Brut Nature "Zero" - [1], 2008 base, would make a good daily wine (if your life includes champagne every day)
Tarlant 2003 Champagne Brut Nature "La Matinale" - [2], excellent acidity, they waited 11 years to take it off the lees
Tarlant NV Champagne Brut Nature "Cuvee Louis" - [1], 2000 base, starting to mellow and turn more vinous

Horiot 2012 Rose des Riceys "En Barmont" - [2], amazing rose
Horiot, Olivier NV Champagne Extra Brut "Metisse Noir et Blancs" - [0], 2013 base
Horiot, Olivier 2010 Champagne Brut "Seve" Rose de Saignee - [1], shows some of the zip and grace of the still rose

Koehler-Ruprecht 2015 Weissburgunder Kabinett Trocken - [0]
Koehler-Ruprecht 2012 Kallstadter Saumagen Riesling Spatlese Trocken - [2], not showing much charm today yet it is very long and broadens as you hold it in your mouth, worth getting but hold
Koehler-Ruprecht 2016 Pinot Noir Kabinett Trocken Rose - [0]

Luyt, Louis-Antoine 2017 Pipeno Blanco - [-1], every mission grape you ever heard of, made fast-fast-fast, rather muscatty
Luyt, Louis-Antoine 2017 Pipeno Carrizal - [0], the red equivalent, grippy from the long skin contact, might relax with a year or two
Luyt, Louis-Antoine 2014 Valle del Bueno Cruchon Pinot Noir - [1], also tough now but clearly has the stuffing

Orsi (Vigneto San Vito) NV Pignoletto Frizzante Emilia Sui Lievitti - [-1], made in the bottle, never disgorged, rather cidery
Orsi (Vigneto San Vito) NV Colli Bolognese Posca Bianco - [0], made solera style using wines since 2011 (not oxidative)
Orsi (Vigneto San Vito) NV Colli Bolognese Posca Rosso - [1], ditto, approx. half barbera and the rest various Bordeaux grapes (barbera dominates the palate), nice quaff

Monte Dall' Ora 2013 Valpolicella Classico Superiore "Camporenza" - [2], beautiful, cherries and whiff of pomander
Monte Dall' Ora 2009 Valpolicella Classico Superiore Ripasso "Sausto" - [2], a better vineyard, some ripasso so richer, more structured
Monte Dall' Ora 2008 Amarone della Valpolicella Classico "Stropa" - [1], fine and delicate, a little richer yet

Foradori 2013 Vignetti delle Dolomiti Fontanasanta "Nosiola" - [1], rare native grape with thin skins so they use long maceration in amphorae to get the most flavor out of it, honeyed, still mild
Foradori 2014 Vigneti delle Dolomiti Teroldego - [1], very structured wine, not such a good year so this contains grapes declassified from one of their better vineyards
Foradori 2010 Teroldego Rotaliano "Morei" - [1], very pretty wine, open and harmonious, also made in amphorae

Boulard, Francis NV Champagne Extra Brut "Les Murgiers" - [1], normal champagne
Luneau-Papin 2015 Muscadet Sevre et Maine "Terre de Pierre" - [1], lightweight
Villemade, Herve 2016 Cheverny Blanc - [1]
Barth 2014 Alsace Riesling - [1], mouthwatering, steely
Clemens Busch 2015 Mosel Riesling Trocken - [1], fruitier than the Barth
Immich-Batterieberg 2015 Mosel "C. A. I." Riesling Trocken - [1]
Pinon 2015 Vouvray Sec - [1]
Mosse 2015 Anjou Blanc "Le Rouchefer" - [1]
Pineau, Julien 2016 Vin de France "Sucettes d'Aunis" - [1], maybe better than the last vintage

Bonhomme, Pierre-Olivier 2016 Vin de France "le Telquel" - [1], gamay and grolleau
Tue-Boeuf 2016 Touraine "La Butte" - [1], gamay
Coudert (Clos de la Roilette) 2016 Fleurie - [1], fresh, bright, light
Descombes, Georges 2015 Regnie - [1], more substance
Terres Dorees (Jean-Paul Brun) 2015 Cote de Brouilly - [2], weightiest of the three wines, shows very Burgundian in this crowd
Richaud 2015 Cotes du Rhone "Terres d'Aigles" - [1], also quite bright and rather Beaujolais like!
Noussan 2014 Vallee d'Aoste Torrette - [0], this bottle is a tad buttery
Montesecondo 2015 IGT Rosso Toscana - [1]
Sanguineto 2014 Vino Nobile di Montepulciano "Sanguineto" - [1], nervy, the story is that the maker is the real deal
Nusserhof (Heinrich Mayr) 2012 Vino Rosso "Elda" - [1], taut, even severe in the mouth but haunting aromatics

Wines not tasted...
- La Stoppa 2012 IGT Emilia "Ageno"
- La Stoppa 2014 IGT Emilia Trebbiolo Rosso
- La Stoppa 2009 IGT Emilia Barbera della Stoppa
- Closel (Chateau des Vaults) 2015 Savennieres "La Jalousie"
- De Bartoli Marsala Superiore Riserva "10 anni"

Hmm . . . not too many 3s in there. Look forward to tasting those today. Well, that is if my delayed flight to JFK ever takes off.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Not any 3s that I saw, nor any score below -1. Instead of score inflation, this is reversion to the mean. On the other hand, not all grades in all classes confirm to the bell curve unless they are forced in that direction. Maybe it was just this line-up.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Walkaround event so only brief impressions and [-3 to 3] ratings.

Hmm . . . not too many 3s in there. Look forward to tasting those today. Well, that is if my delayed flight to JFK ever takes off.

Bummed to miss everyone, but ecstatic that I'm not having to fly to NYC...

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Not any 3s that I saw, nor any score below -1. Instead of score inflation, this is reversion to the mean. On the other hand, not all grades in all classes confirm to the bell curve unless they are forced in that direction. Maybe it was just this line-up.

MM 88-91.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Walkaround event so only brief impressions and [-3 to 3] ratings.

Hmm . . . not too many 3s in there. Look forward to tasting those today. Well, that is if my delayed flight to JFK ever takes off.

Bummed to miss everyone, but ecstatic that I'm not having to fly to NYC...

Yup. Well, it'll have to be for next year. Flight canceled due to weather in NY.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Walkaround event so only brief impressions and [-3 to 3] ratings.

Hmm . . . not too many 3s in there. Look forward to tasting those today. Well, that is if my delayed flight to JFK ever takes off.

Bummed to miss everyone, but ecstatic that I'm not having to fly to NYC...

Yup. Well, it'll have to be for next year. Flight canceled due to weather in NY.

All kidding aside, sorry to hear that.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Not any 3s that I saw, nor any score below -1. Instead of score inflation, this is reversion to the mean. On the other hand, not all grades in all classes confirm to the bell curve unless they are forced in that direction. Maybe it was just this line-up.

Yes, I noticed afterward that all my swans were geese.

Could have been the lineup or me. It might be reasonable to treat the 2s as 3s and jiggle the 1s between 0 and 2 randomly.

There were very few outright bad wines. I did not like the muscatty one and it took a couple tries to like the nervy schiava and nobile.

I bought "Camporenza" and will probably go for some "Pepie", Brun, and Descombes eventually. Others are good quaffing wines but there's always those, right?

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
...and jiggle the 1s between 0 and 2 randomly.

OK, not randomly. I can go back to my notes and tell you which 1s should be 0s. I can't tell you which 1s should be 2s because, well, geese.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Foradori 2014 Vigneti delle Dolomiti Teroldego - [1], very structured wine, not such a good year so this contains grapes declassified from one of their better vineyards

I was curious about this as I had recently had a bottle of the 2014 Foradori Teroldego Sgarzon (about 2 weeks ago) and found the extract buffered the tannins quite well (different wine, 'course). There was plenty of acidity and if it was a bad year, I probably prefer it to a good one. However, to be fair, it was in Europe, in a restaurant, and in Zalto glasses . . . which is, I admit, vastly different than at a walk-around tasting.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: PIH Tasting and Benefit (Oct. 22, 2017)This year's incarnation of the Dressner Real Wine Attack.

Foradori 2014 Vigneti delle Dolomiti Teroldego - [1], very structured wine, not such a good year so this contains grapes declassified from one of their better vineyards

I was curious about this as I had recently had a bottle of the 2014 Foradori Teroldego Sgarzon (about 2 weeks ago) and found the extract buffered the tannins quite well (different wine, 'course). There was plenty of acidity and if it was a bad year, I probably prefer it to a good one. However, to be fair, it was in Europe, in a restaurant, and in Zalto glasses . . . which is, I admit, vastly different than in a walk-around tasting.

Again, sorry about the dysphoric note. It was interesting to compare this wine with the 2010 "Morei". Both from magnum, by the way. The Morei was less structured, fruitier, rounder (by which I mean, more substance in the mid-palate), and the acidity was nicely integrated. The 2014 includes wine, not from Morei, but from another of their better pieces of dirt. The wine is relatively closed and dark and brooding, by comparison to the Morei, though not in comparison to a heavyweight CCR, for example.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

Tarlant NV Champagne Brut Nature "Cuvee Louis" - [1], 2000 base, starting to mellow and turn more vinous

Koehler-Ruprecht 2015 Weissburgunder Kabinett Trocken - [0]
Koehler-Ruprecht 2012 Kallstadter Saumagen Riesling Spatlese Trocken - [2], not showing much charm today yet it is very long and broadens as you hold it in your mouth, worth getting but hold
Koehler-Ruprecht 2016 Pinot Noir Kabinett Trocken Rose - [0]

Monte Dall' Ora 2009 Valpolicella Classico Superiore Ripasso "Sausto" - [2], a better vineyard, some ripasso so richer, more structured

Sanguineto 2014 Vino Nobile di Montepulciano "Sanguineto" - [1], nervy, the story is that the maker is the real deal

I see I've really gotten out of touch with the L-D stable. For example, I had no idea they were repping some German wines. I've had some good ones from Koehler-Ruprecht, so kudos to L-D.

Why a mere [1] for Cuvee Louis, that's usually quite impressive?

Glad to see a warm reception for the Valpolicella Ripasso. I've really enjoyed a bunch of Ripassos recently, but I figured this board might see them as Megapurple for wine snobs.

Glad to see a Vino Nobile in the L-D portfolio, this poor appellation has been completely lost in the no-man's land between plebeian Chianti and WS-hyped Brunello. Despite some very good wines.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Why a mere [1] for Cuvee Louis, that's usually quite impressive?

It probably deserves a 2. I was blah that day.

Glad to see a warm reception for the Valpolicella Ripasso. I've really enjoyed a bunch of Ripassos recently, but I figured this board might see them as Megapurple for wine snobs.

Why should we object if the appropriate people use a traditional technique?

Glad to see a Vino Nobile in the L-D portfolio, this poor appellation has been completely lost in the no-man's land between plebeian Chianti and WS-hyped Brunello. Despite some very good wines.

I'm interested to hear about other good ones. Say more.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Why a mere [1] for Cuvee Louis, that's usually quite impressive?

It probably deserves a 2. I was blah that day.

Glad to see a warm reception for the Valpolicella Ripasso. I've really enjoyed a bunch of Ripassos recently, but I figured this board might see them as Megapurple for wine snobs.

Why should we object if the appropriate people use a traditional technique?

Glad to see a Vino Nobile in the L-D portfolio, this poor appellation has been completely lost in the no-man's land between plebeian Chianti and WS-hyped Brunello. Despite some very good wines.

I'm interested to hear about other good ones. Say more.

I haven’t had much VNdM in the past year, but went on a VN kick in 2015-2016 and visited in 2012. I’m no expert on the area, but here are some notes on my favorites over the past few years.

Poliziano wines are complex and intense; a bit heavy-handed, kind of a Brunello wannabe, but they aren’t overripe or over-modern. Seems like they have the stuffing and structure to age well. They also make excellent Maremma and killer Vin Santo.

Less intense but more elegant, graceful wines at Valdipiatta, good balance and length, they seem very true to my understanding of what good VNdM is all about. At least while Lydia Cesari was the winemaker there (she moved recently to Ruffino).

On the other hand, I was a bit shocked at how “modern” and internationalized the Antinori-owned estate wines were - very ripe, smooth and almost cloying. OK wines if you like that style, but I found nothing “Montepulciano” about them.

I liked the Nocio dei Boscarelli and Riserva bottlings from Boscarelli in 2007-8, but the regular Boscarelli is a bit wan and dull in several vintages, as is the Riserva in 2011.

The 2009 VNdM from Il Greppo had excellent fruit and length. I also like both the Messaggero and Damo bottlings in 2009 from Montemercurio very much, more old school dusty-dry tannins and woodsy notes.

The 2010 Vigna Scianello bottling from La Ciarliana was very impressive last year, medium bodied, complex and long. It’s 100% Sangio single vineyard only bottled in the better vintages.

The 2011 Riserva from Le Berne was excellent, good fruit with a slightly Graves-ish tobacco woody tone.

I liked a number of bottlings from the Vecchia Cantina co-op, all very good value with local character; the regular VNdM and the Poggio Stella in particular.

The Consorzio from Montepulciano put on an interesting seminar and tasting in SF last year, and emphasized the following points (at least these are the ones I actually noted).

Vino Nobile vs. Brunello they have similar altitudes and varying topographies, and of course share the same main grape. Biggest difference is the soils, with VN soils more similar to Chianti Rufina (unsurprisingly).

Lower acidity and suppler tannins are supposedly the hallmarks of VN vs. Chianti and Brunello. Colder autumn nights maintain the wines' freshness and keep it from being overripe.

Most wines are estate grown; only the 4-5 largest producers and the co-ops pull from multiple locations and vineyards.

Permitted yields are quite high, up to roughly 8 tons/acre (which may account for some of the thin and dull VNs you encounter regularly). But 3-5 tons/acre is much more the norm among the better estates.

Many of the wines at that tasting expressed a common style, with few outliers. The common denominator was somewhat low acid, medium-bodied yet very dry wines. The tannins are very fine-grained and soft, but the wines have some structure. The fruit is mostly ripe, lowish acid, supple, yet quite dry and not flabby or cloying; an unusual combination of traits. Flavor wise, I often found pure dark roasted or baked cherry, sometimes with an almond tone, sometimes with some chicory-chestnut or brett complexity. Rarely do barriques intrude.

Pourers were proud of the 2012s and content with the 2013s, but apologetic about the 2014s, a rainy vintage. Actually, although somewhat flat and dilute on the palate, I found the fruit character in 2014 ripe and tasty. They are easy sipping wines for BtG and aperitifs (and many Americans drink reds that way).
Prices were generally quite reasonable: mid-teens for Rosso, upper teens to mid-twenties for Nobile; twenties-thirties for Riserva. Some vineyards/lots higher but nothing kooky.

The problem of Montepulciano d'Abbruzzo being much better known and distributed on the American market has been noticed and debated at the Consorzio. A current proposal is to highlight or emphasize NOBILE while putting Montepulciano in small type on front label, and printing the full Vino Nobile di Montepulciano on the back. But only Salcheto has done so to date, and it doesn't entirely solve the problem (to me Salcheto's label makes it look like Nobile is a high-end lot of Montepulciano grapes).

 

[Jeff Grossman]

Great report, Christian. I feel like I've attended a seminar and did something other than drink the wine and nibble the cheese.

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
On the other hand, I was a bit shocked at how “modern” and internationalized the Antinori-owned estate wines were - very ripe, smooth and almost cloying. OK wines if you like that style, but I found nothing “Montepulciano” about them.

I'm surprised that you're surprised. Antinori wines are nice but he's not a keeper of the old flames.

Pourers were proud of the 2012s and content with the 2013s, but apologetic about the 2014s, a rainy vintage. Actually, although somewhat flat and dilute on the palate, I found the fruit character in 2014 ripe and tasty. They are easy sipping wines for BtG and aperitifs (and many Americans drink reds that way).

Flat and dilute but ripe enough... give with one disorderly hand and take with another.

The problem of Montepulciano d'Abbruzzo being much better known and distributed on the American market has been noticed and debated at the Consorzio. A current proposal is to highlight or emphasize NOBILE while putting Montepulciano in small type on front label, and printing the full Vino Nobile di Montepulciano on the back. But only Salcheto has done so to date, and it doesn't entirely solve the problem (to me Salcheto's label makes it look like Nobile is a high-end lot of Montepulciano grapes).

I think this is a good idea, though, perhaps they still need to work out some of the details. The whole phrase V N d M is just always going to have too many words and never going to have enough charm.

//warning: the above written before coffee