Fakes?

[scottreiner]

Amongst a number of older Bordeaux last night I had two bottles of '89 Cos d'Estournel. The first an excellent bottle and exactly as one would expect, secondary notes, et al. The second completely different, all primary fruit, closed, young tannins. We concluded that the second bottle had to be a fake; there is no way a wine of that age could taste that young. In addition, the second bottle seemed to be produced in a more modern fashion (riper?). Are people forging bottles of '89 Cos these days???

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

How familiar are you with 89 Cos? There is a distinct possibility that the first bottle is a fake :-)

 

[robert ames]

were the corks, foils, bottles, and labels closely compared?

 

[Florida Jim]

originally posted by robert ames:
were the corks, foils, bottles, and labels closely compared?

Recently had an ‘89 La Chapelle that had a second foil under the outer foil. It had been purchased at auction by someone else.
That seems to be pretty far down the food chain to be risking it.
Best, jim

 

[Keith Levenberg]

I had a 1996 Arnoux Suchots in a blind tasting about a year ago that I guessed as a young Kistler. Guessing the reward of faking that bottle would have been about $200-$250.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by robert ames:
were the corks, foils, bottles, and labels closely compared?

Recently had an ‘89 La Chapelle that had a second foil under the outer foil. It had been purchased at auction by someone else.
That seems to be pretty far down the food chain to be risking it.
Best, jim

what was the second foil?

 

[Carl Steefel]

originally posted by scottreiner:
Fakes?Amongst a number of older Bordeaux last night I had two bottles of '89 Cos d'Estournel. The first an excellent bottle and exactly as one would expect, secondary notes, et al. The second completely different, all primary fruit, closed, young tannins. We concluded that the second bottle had to be a fake; there is no way a wine of that age could taste that young. In addition, the second bottle seemed to be produced in a more modern fashion (riper?). Are people forging bottles of '89 Cos these days???

Interesting. I would say it might be possible to have bottle variation on a younger wine, but not for a 27 year old wine that really should show secondary characteristics. Perhaps the only possibility here for the second bottle to be a real one is if it was stored at some ridiculously low temperature (3-4C)??

 

[Florida Jim]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Florida Jim:

originally posted by robert ames:
were the corks, foils, bottles, and labels closely compared?

Recently had an ‘89 La Chapelle that had a second foil under the outer foil. It had been purchased at auction by someone else.
That seems to be pretty far down the food chain to be risking it.
Best, jim

what was the second foil?

Plain, unmarked.

 

[scottreiner]

originally posted by robert ames:
were the corks, foils, bottles, and labels closely compared?

I arrived late, wines had been open for about an hour. Labels looked kosher, but I could not be sure which cork/foil came from which bottle.

 

[MarkS]

89 was pretty fully fruited, a "California" vintage if you will, so it could still be quite lively.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by MarkS:
89 was pretty fully fruited, a "California" vintage if you will, so it could still be quite lively.

or ripe enough to be slip-sliding away. more what i would expect.