Thanksgiving wines

[VLM]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by VLM:


Lapierre Morgon 2014
Breton Morgon "Vielles Vignes" 2014...

Interesting to hear about these. Aside from the Lapierre being damaged.

I've had very grumpy experiences recently with '14 Foillard CdP and Descombes Morgon VV (both from 750), so I decided to lay off '14 Beaujolais for a while.

The Lapierre was purchased at Southern Season by my father-in-law, the Breton was my bottle and it was in perfect condition. They were released at different times so I'm not sure what accounts for the difference in condition.

The last 2014 Foillard I had I thought was great. I haven't been drinking Descombes VV because I have a good amount of previous vintages. Sounds like I'll wait a minute.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by slaton:

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by slaton:

2010 Hudelot-Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
This was the most badly soaked and leaking bottle of 2010 HN I've opened so far, and the first that was strongly advanced. Drinkable but not right. Real shame about this vintage, I still have a few of the '10s and will drink them up in short order.

Slaton, were these sourced through Premier Cru? I have 4 bottles that I purchased from them.

Yes. IIRC the domaine acknowledged a bottling issue with this vintage, don't recall exact details but perhaps a combination of excess dissolved CO2 with overfill. Claude, Maureen or Keith probably know the full story.

As a result nearly every cork shows significant travel and many (most?) are leakers. As you might expect, with each year under cork the wines are showing more variation. I only have a few left.

This sounds a bit like BS. I think the Premier Cru issue that no one talks about is that they regularly sold damaged wines because they just didn't care. Sorry that you got caught up in all of that. It's a huge bummer.

 

[Ben Hunting]

We started with 2016 Falkenstein Krettnacher Altenberg Spätlese trocken. A little rounder than their other trocken 2016s, went well with bay scallop crudo.

Then 2 bottles of 2011 Pont de Breux Cotes du Jura Trousseau Vieilles Vignes, a very light and delicate Trousseau with an appropriate cranberry taste. Cooked a 9 lb heritage turkey hot in just over 1 hour and made the usual David Tanis turkey liver and apple stuffing.

 

[Larry Stein]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by slaton:

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by slaton:

2010 Hudelot-Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
This was the most badly soaked and leaking bottle of 2010 HN I've opened so far, and the first that was strongly advanced. Drinkable but not right. Real shame about this vintage, I still have a few of the '10s and will drink them up in short order.

Slaton, were these sourced through Premier Cru? I have 4 bottles that I purchased from them.

Yes. IIRC the domaine acknowledged a bottling issue with this vintage, don't recall exact details but perhaps a combination of excess dissolved CO2 with overfill. Claude, Maureen or Keith probably know the full story.

As a result nearly every cork shows significant travel and many (most?) are leakers. As you might expect, with each year under cork the wines are showing more variation. I only have a few left.

This sounds a bit like BS. I think the Premier Cru issue that no one talks about is that they regularly sold damaged wines because they just didn't care. Sorry that you got caught up in all of that. It's a huge bummer.

VLM, how do you know this to be true? I've had plenty of other wines that I and others have sourced through that store with no issues whatsoever. A couple of friends have purchased way more wine than I through PC and they've never mentioned this.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by slaton:

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by slaton:

2010 Hudelot-Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
This was the most badly soaked and leaking bottle of 2010 HN I've opened so far, and the first that was strongly advanced. Drinkable but not right. Real shame about this vintage, I still have a few of the '10s and will drink them up in short order.

Slaton, were these sourced through Premier Cru? I have 4 bottles that I purchased from them.

Yes. IIRC the domaine acknowledged a bottling issue with this vintage, don't recall exact details but perhaps a combination of excess dissolved CO2 with overfill. Claude, Maureen or Keith probably know the full story.

As a result nearly every cork shows significant travel and many (most?) are leakers. As you might expect, with each year under cork the wines are showing more variation. I only have a few left.

This sounds a bit like BS. I think the Premier Cru issue that no one talks about is that they regularly sold damaged wines because they just didn't care. Sorry that you got caught up in all of that. It's a huge bummer.

VLM, how do you know this to be true? I've had plenty of other wines that I and others have sourced through that store with no issues whatsoever. A couple of friends have purchased way more wine than I through PC and they've never mentioned this.

Personal experience with heat damaged wine where they showed little interest in it and industry gossip that goes back a long way. So while there are wines with no issues I don't think they cared too much about it as part of the Ponzi scheme. I wouldn't buy a bottle of wine that I knew to be sourced from Premier Cru without trying it first.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by VLM:


Lapierre Morgon 2014
Breton Morgon "Vielles Vignes" 2014...

Interesting to hear about these. Aside from the Lapierre being damaged.

I've had very grumpy experiences recently with '14 Foillard CdP and Descombes Morgon VV (both from 750), so I decided to lay off '14 Beaujolais for a while.

The Lapierre was purchased at Southern Season by my father-in-law, the Breton was my bottle and it was in perfect condition. They were released at different times so I'm not sure what accounts for the difference in condition.

Vis-à-vis the Lapierre you did guess that "I think that it got warm at some point." If it came from Southern Season you can bet that the storage was crappy, as Rahsaan will confirm, as well.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by VLM:


Lapierre Morgon 2014
Breton Morgon "Vielles Vignes" 2014...

Interesting to hear about these. Aside from the Lapierre being damaged.

I've had very grumpy experiences recently with '14 Foillard CdP and Descombes Morgon VV (both from 750), so I decided to lay off '14 Beaujolais for a while.

The Lapierre was purchased at Southern Season by my father-in-law, the Breton was my bottle and it was in perfect condition. They were released at different times so I'm not sure what accounts for the difference in condition.

Vis-à-vis the Lapierre you did guess that "I think that it got warm at some point." If it came from Southern Season you can bet that the storage was crappy, as Rahsaan will confirm, as well.

It came out of the back temperature controlled room, but as a general rule, yes.

 

[Dan McQ]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by Dan McQ:
Clos Roche Blanche 2014 Pinot d’Aunis Rose was a little unsettled out of the bottle but calmed and drank nicely with cheeses and Brie en croute. I don’t think it has much longer life in it but I’ve hidden a couple bottles just in case.

lightly re-fermented, every single bottle
requires rigorous triple-decanting and a 20-30 minutes wait thereafter.

but well worth the trouble

This makes great sense, thanks.

 

[maureen]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by slaton:

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by slaton:

2010 Hudelot-Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
This was the most badly soaked and leaking bottle of 2010 HN I've opened so far, and the first that was strongly advanced. Drinkable but not right. Real shame about this vintage, I still have a few of the '10s and will drink them up in short order.

Slaton, were these sourced through Premier Cru? I have 4 bottles that I purchased from them.

Yes. IIRC the domaine acknowledged a bottling issue with this vintage, don't recall exact details but perhaps a combination of excess dissolved CO2 with overfill. Claude, Maureen or Keith probably know the full story.

As a result nearly every cork shows significant travel and many (most?) are leakers. As you might expect, with each year under cork the wines are showing more variation. I only have a few left.

This sounds a bit like BS. I think the Premier Cru issue that no one talks about is that they regularly sold damaged wines because they just didn't care. Sorry that you got caught up in all of that. It's a huge bummer.

Premier Cru may have been guilty of many things but you cannot pin the leaky H-N wines on it. When the 2010 HN wines came in, the burg buyer called me to tell me about the problems with the bottles. He asked if i had bought 2010 HN wines elsewhere and if they looked ok. I had so i came home to inspect them and all of them, save for an odd bottle or two, had puffy capsules and some had slight seepage. Acquired from zachys and envoyer. Buyer was very concerned and offered various remedies including shipping, letting metry one,and then returning them if i chose, i tookdelivery, drank one, and chose to keep them.

I haven’t had one lately tho and perhaps I should try one to see if they are deteriorating rapidly or simply shutting down.

Oh and there was lots of discussion on other wine boards any many reported similiarly distressed bottles,acquired from many sources.

 

[Keith Levenberg]

Yes. I bought a bunch of 2010 Hudelot Murgers from PC. My bottles arrived clean but a couple started puffing the capsule and leaking after a few months in my cellar. The wine was excellent but had heavy CO2. Frankly, that is happening with almost every red Burgundy I open these days and I am getting damn sick of it - and am pretty surprised that the puffy capsule/leaker problem isn't vastly more common.

I have probably opened hundreds of bottles from PC and never had a cooked one, even oldies with who-knows-what chain of custody.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Yes. I bought a bunch of 2010 Hudelot Murgers from PC. My bottles arrived clean but a couple started puffing the capsule and leaking after a few months in my cellar. The wine was excellent but had heavy CO2. Frankly, that is happening with almost every red Burgundy I open these days and I am getting damn sick of it - and am pretty surprised that the puffy capsule/leaker problem isn't vastly more common.

I have probably opened hundreds of bottles from PC and never had a cooked one, even oldies with who-knows-what chain of custody.

OK, fair enough. I have different experience with PC and know that their chain of custody was variable because they didn't care about the wine, just what was on the label. As everyone knows, they had enormous positions they had to cover. Sounds like other people had different experiences and not every bottle I had was cooked, but enough were and the total lack of care they had towards it didn't sit well with me. This was way back in the late 90s too (they were already acknowledged to be offering options instead of actual wine at that point).

I don't have this problem at all with my red Burgundy. I buy Mugneret, Barthod, Louis Boillot mainly with a bit of Lignier, Guillemot, Rollin mixed in. I get all of them through the national importer and local distributor or from places that work the same way. None of them show this issue.

In addition, the only heat damaged Burgundies I've opened lately have come from the secondary (gray) market from West Coast retailers.

I realize that this issue was discussed on other sites with respect to H-N. My point is that H-N doesn't have a national importer who cares about the chain of custody. I know everyone wants to rail against the 3 tier system and I have my own issues with it, but Neal makes sure the wines come in correct and the other importers I work with seem to do the same. Take from that what you will, but I'm willing to help put food on the table for someone in the wine business to insure that I get uncooked wine.

 

[Keith Levenberg]

Louis Boillot and Guillemot are the only ones on that list that I buy regularly. I have had spritzy Boillot, Guillemot may be old-fashioned enough not to have succumbed. But, I urge everyone who drinks young red Burgundy regularly, do this: pour a taste. Then put your thumb on the bottle and, as Bob Ross would say, shake the devil out of it. You will feel the gas pop when you remove your thumb. Almost EVERY DAMN TIME these days. This isn't a supply chain issue. They're bottled that way. I seem to remember Bill Nanson writing an article on this not long ago. Anyway, I hate it.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Louis Boillot and Guillemot are the only ones on that list that I buy regularly. I have had spritzy Boillot, Guillemot may be old-fashioned enough not to have succumbed. But, I urge everyone who drinks young red Burgundy regularly, do this: pour a taste. Then put your thumb on the bottle and, as Bob Ross would say, shake the devil out of it. You will feel the gas pop when you remove your thumb. Almost EVERY DAMN TIME these days. This isn't a supply chain issue. They're bottled that way. I seem to remember Bill Nanson writing an article on this not long ago. Anyway, I hate it.

Fourrier bottles with lots of CO2 but I've not had that experience with Boillot. In the last year I've had:

2013 & 2014 Bourgogne
2008 Gevrey Evocelles
2008 & 2011 Gevrey Champonnets
2012 Chambolle
2008 Gevrey

None showed this gassy component, but I didn't try the "Fourrier shake". I'll try it with the next bottle I open.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

Such esteemed palates enjoying Guillemot, and calling them old-fashioned! Actually there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking their wines, unless your reference point is their pre-machine-harvested vintages (starting at around 2003) that are quite old-fashioned indeed, in an amazing way. Drinking the current stuff in that context is a little frustrating.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
GuillemotSuch esteemed palates enjoying Guillemot, and calling them old-fashioned! Actually there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking their wines, unless your reference point is their pre-machine-harvested vintages (starting at around 2003) that are quite old-fashioned indeed, in an amazing way. Drinking the current stuff in that context is a little frustrating.

Really? I didn't know anything about the rise of the machines. I've liked what I've had in the last few vintages but my opinion of the wines were formed in the period you describe. I don't think I said old fashioned, but I would describe them as linear, you old dog.

 

[Keith Levenberg]

I know zip about how the wines are made, but they taste pretty classic to me.

Quite surprised to hear that a Kermit producer uses harvesting machines.

 

[slaton]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by slaton
2007 Camus-Bruchon Savigny-les-Beaune
It's not going to change your world, but this was a quite pleasing glass of SlB pinot noir. Mostly harmless were the words that came to mind. It's nicely in the pocket in terms of maturity and I see no upside to holding this any further. Will be getting into some of the 1ers soon.

This kinda doesn't add up. C-B were tremendously successful in 2007 (relative to the field), and leaving the 1er aside for the moment the lieu-dits (Pimentiers & Grands Liards) have outperformed gloriously. The aforementioned wines have also been cyclical - crazy delicious 5 years ago, but somewhat primary and a little superficially too-sweet lately. I am in no way questioning the accuracy of the report, but am surprised. I don't have any village 07 left unfortunately, but would have expected it either to mimic the others in closing up a bit or to be ahead of the curve and be delightfully complex by now, as this bottling is in most vintages.

Pavel, it might also be that you simply like this producer more than I do.
I've had a rather small number of bottles from them in the 2004 through 2010 vintages, around 7-8. I've liked most, been somewhat moved by a couple, but never more.

I do have a bunch of 2005 1er crus from Camus-Bruchon that I have yet to get into, so I look forward to trying these with more development, and may come around to your view yet.

For Savigny I lately prefer Bize, but also enjoy Marechal and the aforementioned Guillemot. Last year a bottle of Lucien Jacob Peuillets was wonderful, but I don't really know this producer.

 

[slaton]

Thanks Maureen for the backstory on 2010 HN.

I've had a small number of heat-damaged bottles from Premier Cru but they weren't interested in hearing about it. So my experience overall is somewhere between Maureen, Keith and Nathan's.

And I agree with this statement.

I wouldn't buy a bottle of wine that I knew to be sourced from Premier Cru without trying it first.

 

[BJ]

For all its insanity, I enjoyed almost every wine I received from PC, and received every single last one...but then...I wasn't the last one in the room...

 

[Keith Levenberg]

I buy the Camus-Bruchon Grands Liards and Pimentieres pretty regularly because I have a geeky obsession with those super-old vine burgundies. That said, if anyone wants to experience the fizzy Burgundy trend in full effect, Camus-Bruchon is your producer!