Thanksgiving wines

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Tried half a dozen different Giboulots in the last few months, all from 2013/14/15, with rather mixed results. Though I have more respect for his transparency that most others'.
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Have not had a chance to try any of these yet, sorry to say. Still drinking the 2006-2011 range. Heavily. All great. One thing I have noticed - particularly with the whites - is that the difference between drinking them just after they've been moved and after 2-3 weeks of rest is night and day. And I don't mean in a way of an old wine with sediment; there is something more profound going on here. What it is, I have no idea - simply going by trial and error.
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Gtk, will see if I can find some older stuff. His interview in Between the Vines shows his approach to be at the high end of transparency & let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may scale, which is how I believe terroir (in the short definition) should be expressed. The only "false" (for me) note in his interview is that he's been increasing his SO2 doses at bottling because he found that his wines with a bit of bottle time had been evolving a little too quickly.
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This is all kind of ironic since he is the only white burg producer I am aware of without a single incidence of premox; these wines have as much of a chance to go premox as do, say, Ganevat's. Yes, they are complex and more transparent earlier, but they seem to be cruising forever thereafter. Not sure he needs more SO2.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Tried half a dozen different Giboulots in the last few months, all from 2013/14/15, with rather mixed results. Though I have more respect for his transparency that most others'.
Click to expand...

Have not had a chance to try any of these yet, sorry to say. Still drinking the 2006-2011 range. Heavily. All great. One thing I have noticed - particularly with the whites - is that the difference between drinking them just after they've been moved and after 2-3 weeks of rest is night and day. And I don't mean in a way of an old wine with sediment; there is something more profound going on here. What it is, I have no idea - simply going by trial and error.
Click to expand...

Gtk, will see if I can find some older stuff. His interview in Between the Vines shows his approach to be at the high end of transparency & let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may scale, which is how I believe terroir (in the short definition) should be expressed. The only "false" (for me) note in his interview is that he's been increasing his SO2 doses at bottling because he found that his wines with a bit of bottle time had been evolving a little too quickly.
Click to expand...

This is all kind of ironic since he is the only white burg producer I am aware of without a single incidence of premox; these wines have as much of a chance to go premox as do, say, Ganevat's. Yes, they are complex and more transparent earlier, but they seem to be cruising forever thereafter. Not sure he needs more SO2.
Click to expand...

In Renaud Boyer's interview in Between the Vines, he argues that too much SO2, rather than too little, explains premox: "The more you put, the more the wine oxidizes. Not in the short term, but in the long term, yes. There are biological phenomena. Fermentations are reductive biological reactions. When you press your grape juice and don’t put sulfur, it is brown because it undergoes oxidase breakage. So, we tell growers to immediately use SO2 to clarify. It’s true that such wine is not a pretty sight, but it will ferment and clarify by itself. Fermentations are reductive, aging on lees is also reductive. So, during all these phases, you don’t need to use sulfur. Reduction replaces SO2, and the advantage is that it will preserve the wine over the long haul, whereas SO2 will preserve it for up to three or four years if you put in a good deal. After four years, your wine will be much more oxidized because it will not have benefited from the natural defense of reduction to protect itself. Yet, this is what all winemakers do, because that’s simply what they learn in oenology schools."
 
Does that jibe with mid- to late-1990s white burgundy wine-making praxis? Did they have a heavy hand with sulfur?

Does this explain why J.J.Prum, famously sulfury, seem to keep very well?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Does that jibe with mid- to late-1990s white burgundy wine-making praxis? Did they have a heavy hand with sulfur?

Does this explain why J.J.Prum, famously sulfury, seem to keep very well?
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, he seems to be talking only about SO2 at crush, not at bottling.

Isn't there a scene in (the awful) The Judgment of Paris in which the chardonnay turns brown and they think they have to throw it away, and then it miraculously becomes yellow again?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Isn't there a scene in (the awful) The Judgment of Paris in which the chardonnay turns brown and they think they have to throw it away, and then it miraculously becomes yellow again?
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I never saw that movie. Texier Père told me that this happens. I think he said the Carthusian monks knew about it in the 15th C, too.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

Does this explain why J.J.Prum, famously sulfury, seem to keep very well?
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell, he seems to be talking only about SO2 at crush, not at bottling.
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A critical difference. The JJ Prums have very high levels of free SO2 at bottling.
 
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