Bordeaux

K

Keith Levenberg

Keith Levenberg
Big shocker for me over the last year or so is that Bordeaux has become a better value than Burgundy for the first time in.. decades? I dunno. At least since I got into this thing. After the Parker bubble and the China bubble and other misc. bubbles, prices are fair again and not wildly out of line with where they were last time I bought Bordeaux in any significant quantity, which was the 2000s. Meanwhile the bins I've been reserving for 2015 Burgundy are still mostly empty because $100 village wines and all sorts of unexciting stuff flirting with $200-$300 is the new normal.

I already posted here about the 2014 Pichon Lalande and Sociando Mallet. I've now started dipping my toes into the 2015s. CW on the vintage is that Margaux and the Right Bank appellations are the stars. Too soon for me to call that one yet, but here are two I heartily recommend for Disorderly palates:

2015 Ch. Beau-Sejour Becot (St. Emilion) - This reminds me of the Delbeck-era Chateau Belairs: dark-fruited but snappy and piercing, on the cutting edge of ripe. (Feels heavier on the cabernets than the 80/20 blend indicates.) Lots of other interesting stuff going on from ashy cigar to slate-like rock. In terms of both flavor and drinkability, I preferred this to the Beausejour Duffau, a wine that got a Suckling "I'm 100 points on that"

2015 Ch. Brane-Cantenac (Margaux) - Unsung second growth that feels like a throwback to the pre-Parker era. Polished and understated, more "winy" than fresh-off-the-truck Bordeaux tends to be, halfway to Rioja gran reserva. But darker, fresher, more powerful, and more structured the next day - so lots in reserve.
 
I can see that. Supply is higher. Wine-growing is easier. Fashionable-quotient is lower.

And despite our (very intelligent) avoidance of Bordeaux, in such a large region there would have to be good wine grown somewhere!

You're almost convincing me to start buying some.
 
Keith,

I definitely understand your point, but I wonder if you have also changed your dinner menus? For me, there is the issue of food pairing. In general, I find that Burgundy is more in line with what I typically eat. We are not ripping into steaks at home very much.

But I admit that I also have been drinking an increasing amount of Bordeaux, especially since having visited for the first time last year.
 
Burgundies and Rhones certainly best fit with what we normally have to eat. Clarets are rarely even considered in our household.

Had Eric's St Julien tonight with cowboy steak, sweet potato fries, and lila beans.

. . . . . Pete
 
Honestly, with the food that I typically eat, I think that Piemonte and Tuscany offer more appealing price aware alternatives to Burgundy than Bordeaux. You have to hunt through a lot of wine to find the gems, but that is also true of Bordeaux.
 
interesting. for a good while now i have looked at chinon, bourgueil, saumur champigny et. al. to be the poor (er, non-affluent) man's bordeaux.

say baudry grezeaux for say 28 bucks full retail. . . .my guess is that the wines mentioned above are a good bit higher rent than that.
 
Robert hits the nail . . . even if it has become “reasonable” by Bordeaux standards, it’s not by mine. It also doesn’t fit with the food I eat, but even if it did . . .
Best, Jim
 
Yes, but to be fair, Keith never said that you should reallocate your Loire dollars to Bordeaux. His premise was based on the Burgundy vs. Bordeaux comparison.
 
While I'm not buying young Bordeaux or Burgundy I've also found my higher end dollars moving towards the former. You can get great aged Bordeaux for around $100, try finding that in Burgundy these days.
 
De gustibus. My wine tastes are mostly francophilic, so Piedmont and Tuscany are not going to scratch the Bordeaux/Burgundy itch. Tuscany I have largely lost interest in. Piedmont I enjoy greatly but it's simply not as functional as Bordeaux or Burgundy (or Rhone or Loire), all of which are fun to drink young, which nebbiolo so seldom is.
 
I have noticed for a few years now that at auction, there is a veritable sea of recent vintage Bordeaux, good to excellent vintages in fact, available by the case at very cheap prices. If I owned a restaurant and had cheap long term storage, I would be buying cases upon cases and letting them sit for a number of years. But, I have no need for young Bordeaux for my own cellar or my own table, because my palate is elsewhere these days, and like Keith, the last vintage of Bordeaux that I bought was 2000.

This week I attended a Chaîne des Rôtisseurs BYO dinner where the theme was Bordeaux. Many people brought young Bordeaux and I took a few bottles home (2009 Pontet-Canet, 2008 Leoville Poyferre) and watched them evolve over a few nights. They were very dark, sturdy, dense; again, not what I want for myself. But the quality was undeniable, for those who like the style. These are good times if one is a Bordeaux buyer.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
say baudry grezeaux for say 28 bucks full retail. . . .my guess is that the wines mentioned above are a good bit higher rent than that.
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$70 each. But that terrific Sociando I was recommending a few months ago was a $30 wine. I'm cellaring both that and plenty of Baudry.
 
originally posted by Asher:
I have noticed for a few years now that at auction, there is a veritable sea of recent vintage Bordeaux, good to excellent vintages in fact, available by the case at very cheap prices. If I owned a restaurant and had cheap long term storage, I would be buying cases upon cases and letting them sit for a number of years. But, I have no need for young Bordeaux for my own cellar or my own table, because my palate is elsewhere these days, and like Keith, the last vintage of Bordeaux that I bought was 2000.

This week I attended a Chaîne des Rôtisseurs BYO dinner where the theme was Bordeaux. Many people brought young Bordeaux and I took a few bottles home (2009 Pontet-Canet, 2008 Leoville Poyferre) and watched them evolve over a few nights. They were very dark, sturdy, dense; again, not what I want for myself. But the quality was undeniable, for those who like the style. These are good times if one is a Bordeaux buyer.
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I think the 2014 and 2015 vintages have dialed back the modernism that made a lot of top chateaux so boring in the much hyped '05s, '09s, and '10s. The catchphrase on all the producers' lips has shifted from ripeness to freshness.
 
But fresh for who? I.e., why aren’t you sourcing mature old Bordeaux if you like Bordeaux and are going to spend the money to buy and cellar young Bordeaux? I am probably a broken record on this point. Unless you like them that young. That’s different.

My latest Bordeaux purchases in 2018 - singles of:
- 78 Haut Bailly
- 89 Pape Clement
- 71 Figeac

Prices were less than $70 per if you factor in 29-47 years of storage. The latter two were $93 and $100 net respectively The Haut Bailly was $125.

You can’t buy mature Burgundy at this level with this track record at this type of pricing. You have to hunt for young Burgundy at this level at this pricing (or cheaper) and hope it turns out ok.

That said, I also agree with your original point that young Bordeaux is now a value proposition compared to young Burgundy. There is a lot of good Bordeaux from 2012 and particularly 2014 at good prices, and we can expect pricing to become even more attractive on 2014s as the 2015s are released. I might even bite. But it would basically be for old age or for my kids.
 
Apples & oranges, personal taste, etc. FWIW, at a recent UGC tasting I found a number of excellent 2015 crus, including some previously underperforming chateaux (in my dated preconceptions), and relatively few spoofy or boring wines. I thought the Sauternes were terrific.

Regarding pricing, the spread of Burgundy's appeal geographically and outside aficionados, combined with the small supply (compared to Bordeaux), made this sadly inevitable. Pricing used to be outlandish for just a few very famous or cult wines, but now everything is being dragged upwards. In contrast, there's a large supply of potentially interesting and great value unclassified or cru bourgeois wines under $25. Per Levi's comment, the problem is finding which ones to buy. You can't try all of them, they don't tend to show up in many tastings or samplings, and I don't know whose advice to take on them. Suggestions?
 
2014 Chateau le Puy Cuvee Emilion is very nice drinkable now wine that scratches the Bordeaux itch. It is under $40 in NYC. I liked it so much I am seeking out more. It paired really well with a root vegetable dish.

I also agree that there is lots of value in Bordeaux especially the older non trophy bottles.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
In contrast, there's a large supply of potentially interesting and great value unclassified or cru bourgeois wines under $25. Per Levi's comment, the problem is finding which ones to buy. You can't try all of them, they don't tend to show up in many tastings or samplings, and I don't know whose advice to take on them. Suggestions?
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2014 Les Ormes de Pez
 
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