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CWD: 2001 Sella Lessona San Sebastiano Allo Zoppo
- Thread starter MLipton
- Start date
originally posted by Brian C:
Porcini I think can be a synergistic non-meat pairing as well in the way you describe.originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by VLM:
Monsecco Gattinara 2011
...excellent and impressive.
Glad to hear that.
I opened the 2011 Gattinara this weekend and it was so pale and fruitless...
The Gattinara is definitely on the structured side, but there was fruit, though more on the dried end of that spectrum. It was maybe the most structured wine of the evening.
Had another bottle of the 2011 Gattinara yesterday and made sure to give it more air. I coaxed more joy out of the bottle than the first one and it played a pleasant role with food. But definitely not a wine for the masses (at least not the masses I know), and probably not something I need to drink a lot of. But there was some appeal.
I think the key to enjoying many of the Alto Piemonte wines (as it is/was with old-style Langhe Nebbiolo, etc.) is food. They just aren't quite the same without the triple combo of fat, salt and meat (at the same time). The only thing that even comes close is Parmigiano Reggiano, but I suspect you may not eat that because it is made with animal rennet. Since I still do eat some birds I can guess at that, but it still doesn't have quite the same effect on AP tannins as, say, a grilled rib eye.
They help but there is no substitute for protein.
originally posted by mark e:
I think the key to enjoying many of the Alto Piemonte wines (as it is/was with old-style Langhe Nebbiolo, etc.) is food. They just aren't quite the same without the triple combo of fat, salt and meat (at the same time). The only thing that even comes close is Parmigiano Reggiano, but I suspect you may not eat that because it is made with animal rennet.
I'll probably never know exactly what I'm missing without actually eating red meat with these wines, but intellectually I understand my handicap.
I have no problem with parmigiano reggiano (no problem with meat stocks or bits in general, my stomach is just not accustomed to digesting meat so I can't tolerate large amounts/strong flavors).
And there was a bit of parmigiano involved in the risotto that paired with the 2011 Monsecco. Along with a reduced tomato sauce that went into the cooking stock, later topped with roasted chestnuts and drizzled with saba. Served alongside fennel sauteed with olives. Trying my best to make the matches work. And they did!
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by mark e:
I think the key to enjoying many of the Alto Piemonte wines (as it is/was with old-style Langhe Nebbiolo, etc.) is food. They just aren't quite the same without the triple combo of fat, salt and meat (at the same time). The only thing that even comes close is Parmigiano Reggiano, but I suspect you may not eat that because it is made with animal rennet.
I'll probably never know exactly what I'm missing without actually eating red meat with these wines, but intellectually I understand my handicap.
I have no problem with parmigiano reggiano (no problem with meat stocks or bits in general, my stomach is just not accustomed to digesting meat so I zmdican't tolerate large amounts/strong flavors).
And there was a bit of parmigiano involved in the risotto that paired with the 2011 Monsecco. Along with a reduced tomato sauce that went into the cooking stock, later topped with roasted chestnuts and drizzled with saba. Served alongside fennel sauteed with olives. Trying my best to make the matches work. And they did!
I hear you. And your umami-focus helps a great deal. Yet the sweetness in chestnuts and saba will make the tannins seem firmer.
originally posted by mark e:
Yet the sweetness in chestnuts and saba will make the tannins seem firmer.
Fair enough. Although I go light on saba when matching with wine, just enough to deepen the flavors.
And I've never considered chestnuts to be very sweet. I suppose I see what you are talking about, but something in the texture/oil/can't say for sure seems to be a good match with nebbiolo wines even by themselves (or perhaps helped with a bit of cheese). At least to my palate. I'll pay more attention next time.
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by mark e:
Yet the sweetness in chestnuts and saba will make the tannins seem firmer.
Fair enough. Although I go light on saba when matching with wine, just enough to deepen the flavors.
And I've never considered chestnuts to be very sweet. I suppose I see what you are talking about, but something in the texture/oil/can't say for sure seems to be a good match with nebbiolo wines even by themselves (or perhaps helped with a bit of cheese). At least to my palate. I'll pay more attention next time.
In my vegetarian years (and there were many of them), umami components (often dried porcini) and cheese made all the difference (but never together). I eshewed all sweet things with Barolo. But a chunk of Parmigiano (not too aged) with Alto Piemonte or Valtellina nebbiolo is really quite enjoyable.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
I have found porcini and chestnuts very synergistic with middle-aged to older Nebbiolo. Also rich eggplant dishes, even with younger wines. Actually, serving it with roast chestnuts is one of the best ways to enjoy any very mature to over-mature red wine. IMHO.
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Also rich eggplant dishes, even with younger wines.
I can see that because they usually involve salt, fat and protein (in the form of cheese and/or cheese + meat).