Foillard?

Florida Jim

Florida Jim

Florida Jim
While dining with a winemaker who was trained in and often travels to France, he mentioned that Foillard had become very much a negociant and that much of his output now is from that part of his operation. Frankly, he was a bit more negative about it - he had actually decided not to buy from Foillard any more, although escalating prices may have played a part in that decision.
Anybody have more information about this?
Best, jim
 
there's nothing about any change in operation at the foillard page of the kermit lynch website. i can't find a website for foillard itself.

perhaps the sky is falling. it has happened before.
 
Recent 2013 3.14 and Les Charmes Eponym were superb, and 2013 Côte du Py very good. I have a few more recent ones to try, but think it's premature.
 
He does buy fruit for the Beaujolais Villages and Charmes Eponym as I understand it. Maybe also for the Fleurie. But if one trusts the winemaker to be selecting the fruit and finding good old vine sites, that it's still well farmed and managed, that it's not a distraction, et cetera, I can't imagine why anyone would get bent out of shape about it.
 
Aspersions festered, so I decided to take two for the teamsters and opened a pair of 2015 Foillards, one naygoce and one yaygoce. On successive Leaf nights so as to make the comparison unimpeachable on lunar grounds.

Alas, the aspersions seemed grounded in empiricism.

A year ago I had truly enjoyed a 13 négoce Eponym', a sprightly 12.5% quaffer of the kind that makes most non-curmudgeons smile uncritically and nod.

The 2015 Eponym', in contrast, weighs in at a portly 14.0%, was aromatically somewhat closed (whiff of cherry cordial), and radiated warmth after the initial rush of alcoholically-enhanced sweetness. It showed none of the gloutinous but structured fruit, marked by byzantine spice aromas (intracelular?), that I associate with pleasure-bomb Morgons when in the zone.

The 2015 Classique, while also on the closed side (cherry and smoke), was more recognizably Beaujolais, though it also had none of the characteristics I associate with semi-carbonic, and was far from glouglou. But at least it showed no heat.

So, maybe just a hotter vintage. Or a change of style towards the kind that has darker fruit and requires a decade. So, while such dissatisfactions may be attributable to the youth of the subject matter, it may behoove those who stand on the cusp of maturity to stick to 2013 and earlier.
 
Aren't most of the new age Bojo producers negociants to some extent? I don't think the Goddard's, Sunier's, etcetera all have their own vineyards, but I certainly could be wrong. Seems there is a lot of leased land throughout the whole area.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Aspersions festered, so I decided to take two for the teamsters and opened a pair of 2015 Foillards, one naygoce and one yaygoce. On successive Leaf nights so as to make the comparison unimpeachable on lunar grounds.

Alas, the aspersions seemed grounded in empiricism.

A year ago I had truly enjoyed a 13 négoce Eponym', a sprightly 12.5% quaffer of the kind that makes most non-curmudgeons smile uncritically and nod.

The 2015 Eponym', in contrast, weighs in at a portly 14.0%, was aromatically somewhat closed (whiff of cherry cordial), and radiated warmth after the initial rush of alcoholically-enhanced sweetness. It showed none of the gloutinous but structured fruit, marked by byzantine spice aromas (intracelular?), that I associate with pleasure-bomb Morgons when in the zone.

The 2015 Classique, while also on the closed side (cherry and smoke), was more recognizably Beaujolais, though it also had none of the characteristics I associate with semi-carbonic, and was far from glouglou. But at least it showed no heat.

So, maybe just a hotter vintage. Or a change of style towards the kind that has darker fruit and requires a decade. So, while such dissatisfactions may be attributable to the youth of the subject matter, it may behoove those who stand on the cusp of maturity to stick to 2013 and earlier.
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Sounds like a hot vintage on Eponym’. And maybe they should have picked earlier (does Foillard have a say in the viticulture?) although that is not something that can be second-guessed from my Midtown arm chair.

I’ve continued to steer clear of 2015 Beaujolais (as my wine purchases in any case have been reduced to a trickle), and nothing I’ve read on the interwebs gives me regrets.
 
originally posted by MarkS:
Aren't most of the new age Bojo producers negociants to some extent? I don't think the Goddard's, Sunier's, etcetera all have their own vineyards, but I certainly could be wrong. Seems there is a lot of leased land throughout the whole area.
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I am guessimg jpb's crus are leased? If we needed a case for the okness of that it would be him.
 
A lurker writes to say that the 2016 Foillards are back on track, so maybe the odd 2015s were weather-related rather than a style change. But what still does not compute is their lack of semi-carbonic imprint. Maybe the heat affects that too, but I've never heard of any such thing, and didn't find it in the 09s.
 
Among the greatest disappointments in the great experiment of buying wines on release to cellar, these Foillard wines*. Although my experiment only dates back to the 2007 vintage, while epic tales of the wines from the 1990s have been told by people who know better. Generic and dull.

*clearly not a leader among price-weighted disappointments**

**wait a minute, those were easily sold at auction, so I revert to original statement
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
Among the greatest disappointments in the great experiment of buying wines on release to cellar, these Foillard wines*. Although my experiment only dates back to the 2007 vintage...
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2005 is holding up well.
 
I haven't drunk any 2015s, other than a tiny splash of Eponym at a retailer tasting - which I didn't care for at all.

But I also found the 2009 Foillards rather thick, frooty and acid-deficient on release, and had some buyer's remorse. They are quite delicious now.

Regarding other questionable vintages. After the glorious 2007, the 2008 Foillards seemed like a real whiff at the time, lean, unclean. I didn't hold any more than a few years, so I don't know if they came around eventually. I think I recall that Guilhaume sold all of his bottles.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
Among the greatest disappointments in the great experiment of buying wines on release to cellar, these Foillard wines*. Although my experiment only dates back to the 2007 vintage, while epic tales of the wines from the 1990s have been told by people who know better. Generic and dull.

*clearly not a leader among price-weighted disappointments**

**wait a minute, those were easily sold at auction, so I revert to original statement
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I've opened a few '07 Foillard with some of the folks here the past couple of years and they've been stunning. The '09s are also drinking well now, though the '07s drink better.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
yes, I opened some 2009 Foillard for Thanksgiving a few years ago and it was terrible, but a bottle just a few weeks back was a beauty.
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Good to know. Should try another one. I bought an obscenely disproportionate quantity of 09 Py, and have been trying 2-3 per year until about a year ago when I just gave up. Some were definitely better than others, but none inspired - especially given the alternatives.

Probably repeating myself, but the demise of Foillard in my estimation conspicuously coincides with the rise of the likes of Debize and Ducroux, consumed in body-weight quantities. Yes, wines of such contrasting styles should not be necessarily mutually exclusive but perhaps they are in this case; I liken the experience to my discovery of zero-dosage grower Champagne in the early-mid 2000s, that left me abandoning some previously admired Grandes Marques, while mysteriously enjoying others as much as I ever did.
 
I have certainly consumed less Foillard since discovering Dutraive. Not to say that Morgon and Fleurie are entirely fungible, but to some degree they are for me.
 
This discussion is very interesting. Foillard was the first Beaujolais that touched my soul. This was in the early 2000s (vintages from late 90s and early 00s). I haven't had the same types of reactions recently, but was not sure if it was the wine changing or me changing (I am getting more jaded, aren't we all).

That said, I really really enjoyed a bottle of the 2013 CdP a few weeks ago. Brought back memories of those early thrills!
 
Speaking with a Beaujolais vigneron (not one I import - yet), we were musing on the influx of outsiders and the generally prevalent styles for quality-conscious producers:

Carbonic/semi-carbonic/natural - Lapierre, Foillard, Dutraive, etc
Traditional - J.P Brun, Desvignes, etc
Burgundian (meaning almost always destemmed, long macerations) - Ligier-Belair, Jadot

Of course the boundaries are porous, but I find that it's an efficient and useful categorisation. Beaujolais from the second group of producers, whether from the crus or the South, are what I drink most often.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
Speaking with a Beaujolais vigneron (not one I import - yet), we were musing on the influx of outsiders and the generally prevalent styles for quality-conscious producers:

Carbonic/semi-carbonic/natural - Lapierre, Foillard, Dutraive, etc
Traditional - J.P Brun, Desvignes, etc
Burgundian (meaning almost always destemmed, long macerations) - Ligier-Belair, Jadot

Of course the boundaries are porous, but I find that it's an efficient and useful categorisation. Beaujolais from the second group of producers, whether from the crus or the South, are what I drink most often.
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Useful, yes, but how could there not be controversy over the meaning of traditional, as well as what camp Desvignes falls in?

The David Bowler site (http://bowlerwine.com/producer/desvignes) says In the cellar, Desvignes employs what is generally referred to as "traditional" vinification in Beaujolais, which is to say semi-carbonic, fermenting mainly whole-cluster fruit in open-top tanks. The amount of destemmed-vs.-whole-cluster fruit and the maceration time vary with vintage and parcels.

The Desvignes site (https://www.louis-claude-desvignes.com/elaboration,vin,morgon.php) confirms Patience , minutie et apologie de la lenteur sont les maîtres mots pour une vinification beaujolaise traditionnelle. Les grappes entières macèrent dans un univers saturé en gaz carbonique, la vendange se rythme alors de divers remontages, pigeages et de délestages pour les vins issus de meilleures vignes.
 
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