Sticker shock

originally posted by VLM:
Sometime around 15-20 years ago when things switched to email and then e-commerce what folks started to do with Burgundy is to price the Villages wines (remember, allocations generally come as an all-or-none parcel) at or very near cost, do a lighter retail mark-up on lieu-dits and 1er Crus and then price the top 1er Cru and Grand Cru to market. When I was first confronted with this and asked why, I was told that big, national Burgundy buyers only want he top wines and are willing to pay higher prices to not have to take the other wines.
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That rings true to me, but at the end of the day it's basically the same thing. If the village wines clear the market at cost+10% and the trophies at cost+200%, you can either sell them at those prices to anyone who walks (or clicks) through the door, or you can overprice the village wines and underprice the grand crus in a bundle. The bundle buyer gets to brag to his friends that he got Roumier Musigny for $300 (or whatever the VIP price is these days) but when you factor in the unwanted or barely wanted loyalty purchases he can't be coming out too far ahead, else nobody would offer the deal.

What's changed, weirdly, is that this used to be a thing they only did for elite bottles that never reached the shelves, now I get emails all the time insisting "balanced orders, please" on stuff I can cherry-pick whatever I want from 30 different shops. The other weird new phenomenon is the "balanced orders, please" insistence along *with* the cost+200% or more markup on the trophies. No thanks!
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by VLM:
This is the flip side of internet shopping, there won't be the same values that used to be out there for wines that gain a following.
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Here is this same story, written in hamburger.

Don't get me started on Instagram.
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I definitely actively withhold information from the internet that I'll share privately.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Ken Schramm:
We can afford that, and we're a crappy little meadery.
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Without agreeing with the end of your statement, this info is much appreciated. I'm surprised it's so cheap to have your wine flavored and softened.
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Perhaps "piddly little meadery" might be a better characterization. We could afford it financially, but we're not doing it. I'm more a fan of fidelity and purity.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
originally posted by VLM:
Sometime around 15-20 years ago when things switched to email and then e-commerce what folks started to do with Burgundy is to price the Villages wines (remember, allocations generally come as an all-or-none parcel) at or very near cost, do a lighter retail mark-up on lieu-dits and 1er Crus and then price the top 1er Cru and Grand Cru to market. When I was first confronted with this and asked why, I was told that big, national Burgundy buyers only want he top wines and are willing to pay higher prices to not have to take the other wines.
Click to expand...
That rings true to me, but at the end of the day it's basically the same thing. If the village wines clear the market at cost+10% and the trophies at cost+200%, you can either sell them at those prices to anyone who walks (or clicks) through the door, or you can overprice the village wines and underprice the grand crus in a bundle. The bundle buyer gets to brag to his friends that he got Roumier Musigny for $300 (or whatever the VIP price is these days) but when you factor in the unwanted or barely wanted loyalty purchases he can't be coming out too far ahead, else nobody would offer the deal.
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Monkey's right on this one: It may come to the same dollars in the end but the internet has made the first category of shopper (random click-through) much more common than before. The shop has no need to coddle the sure-I'll-take-'em buyer... why bother?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by VLM:
This is the flip side of internet shopping, there won't be the same values that used to be out there for wines that gain a following.
Click to expand...
Here is this same story, written in hamburger.
Click to expand...

Interesting story. Taps into some of my concerns about how the internet affects contemporary tourism.

But of course I benefit from the system, because like most people here I am interested in finding good food/drink options when I travel and that was much harder prior to the internet. I also wonder how much the internet helps the standout businesses attract the crowds/attention that they 'deserve', because word of mouth among locals is not always enough.

Of course everything has multiple effects, no idea which positive/negative direction is stronger in this case.
 
on the other hand there was next to no wine produced in Burgundy in 2016. In some cases specific wines weren't even bottled (less than a barrel made), others were anywhere from 25% to 80% down compared to "normal" vintages. This is on top of very short crops in 12, 13, 14, and 15, variation notwithstanding. So in some ways this is also an economic reality. It will be interesting to see what happens with prices in 17 and 18, the first two vintages of a decent size since 2011. We can probably guess release prices will be comparable to 2016; whether the wines are going to sell out at those prices is another story altogether.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by VLM:
This is the flip side of internet shopping, there won't be the same values that used to be out there for wines that gain a following.
Click to expand...
Here is this same story, written in hamburger.
Click to expand...

Interesting story. Taps into some of my concerns about how the internet affects contemporary tourism.

But of course I benefit from the system, because like most people here I am interested in finding good food/drink options when I travel and that was much harder prior to the internet. I also wonder how much the internet helps the standout businesses attract the crowds/attention that they 'deserve', because word of mouth among locals is not always enough.

Of course everything has multiple effects, no idea which positive/negative direction is stronger in this case.
Click to expand...
A well-traveled friend observes that the same technology that brings the hordes of must-have-it myrmidons can help scale delivery of movies or music but there is only so much griddle-time in a day....
 
For at least a hundred years before the internet we had Baedekers and Michelins and travelogues telling us where to go, so the internet seems to me more an increase in timeliness and interactivity delivered with less authority. Message boards to some extent replace personal interactions and make the sharing of information much more efficient, but the substance seems to me basically the same as before. But without any doubt the change of media, even if the messages are the same, has had a huge impact on the patterns of commerce.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
For at least a hundred years before the internet we had Baedekers and Michelins and travelogues telling us where to go, so the internet seems to me more an increase in timeliness and interactivity delivered with less authority.
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Fair enough. But timeliness is key. It does me no good to read reviews that are no longer relevant. Whereas I can sift through reviews of varying trustworthiness and extract some useful information.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
For at least a hundred years before the internet we had Baedekers and Michelins and travelogues telling us where to go, so the internet seems to me more an increase in timeliness and interactivity delivered with less authority.
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Not quite.

You had a Baedeker if you bought one and remembered to take it with you.

With the Internet you - and everybody else on the Interent - have 100 of them and they are all right there, always flipped open to the right page.

Michelin directs the crowd, but Google directs the stampede. (What's bigger than a stampede? A "seasonal migration"?)
 
You have the internet if you buy a phone, pay for a plan, and remember to carry the phone with you (admittedly more likely); then, as now, things don't just fall from the sky (well, maybe now they do).
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
You have the internet if you buy a phone, pay for a plan, and remember to carry the phone with you (admittedly more likely); then, as now, things don't just fall from the sky (well, maybe now they do).
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The idea to buy a phone has a million encouragements; the impetus to buy a Baedeker requires planning, foresight, availability, etc.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by VLM:
This is the flip side of internet shopping, there won't be the same values that used to be out there for wines that gain a following.
Click to expand...
Here is this same story, written in hamburger.

Don't get me started on Instagram.
Click to expand...

Oof, the "personal issues" cited therein.... That author really did them in!

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www.wweek.com
 
Thanks for that, the Thrilliest piece immediately struck me as a piece of self-aggrandizing clickbait, glad to get the official confirmation. Also that burger looks terrible.
 
So, nothing particular new, but just saw an offer for Thierry Allemand's 2015s: $250 for Chaillot and $290 for Reynard. I am too rooted in the era of buying Clape and Verset for under $10 at KLWM and Garnet. I just can't pay those prices for Cornas, as good as it's likely to be.

Mark Lipton
(Hoping that Paris and Balthazar can scratch that itch)
 
originally posted by VLM:
What people get confused about is the term efficiency. Efficiency doesn't have to do with driving down the price of all goods, though it often does. What it means is that the standard deviation around the true price of something is shrunk. .
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Interesting and useful way to think about it, but doesn't it get you only half way there? What if the standard deviation is very small, but at a price where the profit is way above normal market returns (adjusted for risk)?
 
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