Impressions - yesterday

K

Keith Levenberg

Keith Levenberg
fizz

1982 Krug - Struck me as a "people who like this kind of thing will find this the kind of thing they like" thing. Extremely complex scents of honeyed fruit, vanilla cream, white chocolate, crispy chicken skin, whatever. Still has bubbles but lazy bubbles, and just tastes generally tired to me, which seemed to be the group consensus, but I have been at other dinners where the Krug tasted the same way and the hardcore Krugistes loved it

1998 Taittinger Comtes de Champagne - This is more like it, showing bottle-age payoff but still bright with gushing lemon-cream fruit just starting to get some compote around the edges, very pure and not as toasty as younger vintages

riesling

2001 Grosset Polish Hill - Someone compared this to a Trimbach, and I kind of agree, but I don't really care for Trimbach. The screwcap has kept this fresh, but it's very, very pale and lacking the mineral drive I have gotten out of younger vintages

2006 Hirtzberger Singerriedel - The exact opposite. Deep and golden in both flavor and physical color, but has retained every bit of the stony detail it showed on day one. Probably at peak

claret

1982 Gruaud Larose - A little bretty, but a good funk. Lots to keep your nose in the glass. Softening up on the palate, though - for all its complexity it seems faded a bit from a few years ago and lacking the grip of the '86

1989 Calon Segur - A little bretty, but not the good funk, just the usual brett smell intruding on the more classic pencil-lead scents. Still tannic. Clean bottles ought to have a nice future

1989 Clinet - A legendary wine which was unfortunately hard for me to get a read on. Complex blueberry and gravel scents, but also very dry and tannic and curled up in a ball

1990 Vieux-Chateau-Certan - I love VCC in general and this vintage in particular, this was a recent purchase but the cork came out looking very happy and all the elements are here - truffle, cocoa, burgundian sous bois. Excellent

1990 Haut-Bailly - Purchased on release and it showed. All the classic Pessac charcoal, scorched earth, and black-fruit character, dense by the standards of Haut-Bailly (that's the vintage) but nice and supple when you toss it around in the mouth (that's Haut-Bailly)

1990 Pape-Clement - Also classic Pessac but harder for me to focus on next to the more finessed and focused HB.

1990 Lagrange - A secret over-performer of the era, full with rich material mostly glossing over the tannin, much development still seems ahead of it.
 
Keith,
Singerriedel often goes long - is there something about this vintage that makes you think it’s close to peak or just a contemporaneous tasting impression?
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
1982 Krug ...crispy chicken skin, whatever.
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It would be great if we could get wine to taste like chicken, why, it'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread!
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Keith,
Singerriedel often goes long - is there something about this vintage that makes you think it’s close to peak or just a contemporaneous tasting impression?
Best, Jim
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I was a fan of the vintage from day one, though others complained that it was too ripe and fat. Still, this tastes like perfectly mature riesling.
 
I've been meandering my way through a case of 02 Polish Hills over the years, and the most recent one captured my heart: transformation from the burly, over-generous fruit of much - even very good - Australian Riesling, which characterized prior samples, into a much lither, more sinuous wine with great intensity and good complexity. I don't remember the minerality index on the bottle and may have to open another soon to gauge. However, the last bottle did put this wine on my watch list as a pretty great example of the genre, and would be at least a coin toss for my money, compared with the CFE millésimés I've been through, on into the running with the best Austrian Rieslings I've tried (noting that I do not get into the really high-end stuff).
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've been meandering my way through a case of 02 Polish Hills over the years, and the most recent one captured my heart: transformation from the burly, over-generous fruit of much - even very good - Australian Riesling...
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This is the first time I've heard someone call Australian Riesling over-generous. I'm not familiar with Polish Hills, but most serious Australian Riesling I've tasted has been reserved and fiercely austere in its youth. Like the opposite of the stereotype Aussie wine. Maybe I've just had a skewed selection, it's certainly not a large number.
 
a rare chance to discuss claret in this place; thanks for the opportunity. I hope my nitpicking won't be perceived as too obnoxious.

the only reason Lagrange of the era is any kind of a secret is because almost no one gives a shit about bordeaux on disorder.

I love 90 Pape, but classic it is not - it is a great example of their transitional style, before it went to the dogs completely in the late 90s. Even the 89 - if you can somehow discount vintage influence in Graves that year - is more classic.

Indeed 90 VCC is curiously burgundian in flavor and aromas (not in composition). It's a very interesting outlier for me in that respect, from VCC.

Thank you for including the blueberry descriptor in your note on 89 Clinet. This saves me the trouble of having to try it. :)

I think quite a few left bank 89s were awkward for the first decade, and have since surpassed expectations. (Although I did have an inkling on Poyferre to begin with, despite being laughed at). I am looking forward to a good bottle of Calon sometime soon as well.

But above all, this post makes me want to retaste 90 haut bailly, as that's the note that I have the hardest time processing. HB is almost never classic Pessac. In fact, when served blind, most vintages produce one of two guesses: either Haut-Bailly (because the taster just recognized it) or right bank. That does not preclude the 1990's being classic Pessac, which is why I am so eager to try it; it's been years. But then the "dense" qualifier is counterintuitive for two reasons. Firstly, that's just not 90 which has impressive ripeness (pure or otherwise) and relatively early complexity and transparency, occasionally bordering on softness. Plenty of black-fruity flavors one would normally associate with density (like in 86), but not the core to match. Secondly, what would potentially make a 90 Graves classically Pessac is sort of what made your 90 VCC burgundian, and real density at this age would certainly get in the way of either.
 
Nitpicking the nitpicks. Completely disagree about Pape - the 1995 would be another one that is still classic Graves. I don't have any memory of having had the '96 or '97, but the '98 is the first where the oak and modernism bothered me, although there was a period back in the day where it was enjoyable notwithstanding, or maybe because of, its sluttiness. I disagree even more about Haut-Bailly, which is the Bordeaux I've probably had more vintages of over the last century than any other (merci to our friends in Tampa) - the smoky, tarry flavors are just about essence of Graves (there are vintages where it tastes more Haut-Brion than Haut-Brion does) although it also has a finesse that's unique to Haut-Bailly. I can see a similarity to some Right Bank wines in that latter sense only, but there's nothing outside of Graves comparable in flavor. When I talk about classic Graves I am always talking about flavor instead of structure, since structure is all over the map there. 1990 is indeed a ripe vintage of course which made many soft (and early-drinking) wines, but the best wines even in ripe vintages also have density and power.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
...Indeed 90 VCC is curiously burgundian in flavor and aromas (not in composition). It's a very interesting outlier for me in that respect, from VCC.

HB is almost never classic Pessac. In fact, when served blind, most vintages produce one of two guesses: either Haut-Bailly (because the taster just recognized it) or right bank.
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Although it never struck me that way, I have heard a number of experienced tasters call VCC Burgundian.

I agree and disagree on Haut-Bailly. I agree that it has a right bank-like texture, especially when young. But in most of the vintages I have had, its aroma has that distinct earthy/cigar-wrapper note that I associate with many Pessac and quite a few Graves wines. Granted my opinion is dated to 80s-90s, when I drank a lot more Bordeaux than I do now.

By the way, if Haut-Bailly is shortened to HB, how do we refer to Haut Brion? "Your Majesty"?
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

I love 90 Pape, but classic it is not - it is a great example of their transitional style, before it went to the dogs completely in the late 90s. Even the 89 - if you can somehow discount vintage influence in Graves that year - is more classic.
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I agree with Keith. This was not a transitional wine for PC. It was their typical style that's atypical in that they had really ripe fruit that year. It happens to be my favorite vintage from them as it doesn't have the greenness of other vintages and is certainly friendlier.

Magrez brought Rolland on board in 1993. To me, the transitional period was '94-'97 and '98 was the full bore change in style, but even then, it works for that vintage. I haven't really cared for them that much since then, though I don't have nearly the experience with post '98 wines from them as I do pre-'98.
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

I love 90 Pape, but classic it is not - it is a great example of their transitional style, before it went to the dogs completely in the late 90s. Even the 89 - if you can somehow discount vintage influence in Graves that year - is more classic.
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I agree with Keith. This was not a transitional wine for PC. It was their typical style that's atypical in that they had really ripe fruit that year. It happens to be my favorite vintage from them as it doesn't have the greenness of other vintages and is certainly friendlier.

Magrez brought Rolland on board in 1993. To me, the transitional period was '94-'97 and '98 was the full bore change in style, but even then, it works for that vintage. I haven't really cared for them that much since then, though, though I don't have nearly the experience with post '98 wines from them as I do pre-'98.
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Any thoughts/memories of the '96 ?
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
almost no one gives a shit about bordeaux on disorder.
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No doubt one of this place's enduring charms, even after irreparable losses. But it's still fascinating to take in such an earnest attempt to rearrange the deck chairs, and witness the reactions it triggers in those who would place them otherwise.
 
What’s wrong with Bordeaux?

I know what Pavel is saying about Haut Bailly, the glorious 1979 this week (not with Pavel) a prime example. But I also see Keith’s side. So I’m going to be Switzerland on this one. Although you all might want to talk vintages because you might be talking past each other. Mature Haut Bailly does tend to shed smoky tar for Right Bank-like fruit and texture as it ages. I don’t go that far back with Haut Bailly, but think 71, 79, and 81. Whereas there is more resistance to that transition from the Graves side in vintages like 70, 75, and 78.
 
The '24, '34, '47, and '49 are plenty smoky and tarry!

We can put this to the test though. I have actually been amassing a Haut-Bailly vertical for many years now and never got around to actually planning something. Last week I was able to pick up a bottle from the Acker auction extending it back to '55. Not quite as deep as the Tampa selection used to be, but pretty deep. Will have to make this happen soon.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
...Indeed 90 VCC is curiously burgundian in flavor and aromas (not in composition). It's a very interesting outlier for me in that respect, from VCC.

HB is almost never classic Pessac. In fact, when served blind, most vintages produce one of two guesses: either Haut-Bailly (because the taster just recognized it) or right bank.
Click to expand...

Although it never struck me that way, I have heard a number of experienced tasters call VCC Burgundian.

I agree and disagree on Haut-Bailly. I agree that it has a right bank-like texture, especially when young. But in most of the vintages I have had, its aroma has that distinct earthy/cigar-wrapper note that I associate with many Pessac and quite a few Graves wines. Granted my opinion is dated to 80s-90s, when I drank a lot more Bordeaux than I do now.

By the way, if Haut-Bailly is shortened to HB, how do we refer to Haut Brion? "Your Majesty"?
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Caused considerable confusion when someone offered to bring a 1989 HB to our recent Graves dinner. We still don't know which he meant as he had to cancel.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
The '24, '34, '47, and '49 are plenty smoky and tarry!

We can put this to the test though. I have actually been amassing a Haut-Bailly vertical for many years now and never got around to actually planning something. Last week I was able to pick up a bottle from the Acker auction extending it back to '55. Not quite as deep as the Tampa selection used to be, but pretty deep. Will have to make this happen soon.
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Thought you gave up on that idea years ago. I still have the 1982 I acquired for it.
 
I've always considered 1998 as the transitional vintage for Pape Clement stylistically. I enjoyed it but the shift was apparent. Haven't had 1999 but it had gone completely to the dogs by 2000.

1990 was simply a very ripe vintage as opposed to a spoofy one.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
The '24, '34, '47, and '49 are plenty smoky and tarry!

We can put this to the test though. I have actually been amassing a Haut-Bailly vertical for many years now and never got around to actually planning something. Last week I was able to pick up a bottle from the Acker auction extending it back to '55. Not quite as deep as the Tampa selection used to be, but pretty deep. Will have to make this happen soon.
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Keith, that’s awesome. Let us know what vintages you have so we could fill in if needed and assuming we try to do a collective vertical.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've been meandering my way through a case of 02 Polish Hills over the years, and the most recent one captured my heart: transformation from the burly, over-generous fruit of much - even very good - Australian Riesling...
Click to expand...
This is the first time I've heard someone call Australian Riesling over-generous. I'm not familiar with Polish Hills, but most serious Australian Riesling I've tasted has been reserved and fiercely austere in its youth. Like the opposite of the stereotype Aussie wine. Maybe I've just had a skewed selection, it's certainly not a large number.
Click to expand...

My sample range is also limited, but I've been struck by a pattern of good-quality fruit, but at volumes notably higher than I find in, say, good Alsatian Rieslings. There is a richer, cushioned mouthfeel, and a kind of generosity to the fruit flavors/aromas that is not what I look for in Riesling varietals, though, again, the quality is not off.

Anyway, been a while since I ventured into the the wine domain of Aussie Riesling, but a pleasant surprise to find my cellared GH waxing so sinus and refined. An excellent wine, imho.

Not sure how much longer to keep it, screwcap closure notwithstanding. Probably should open one again in the spring, when I'm off my wine-fast.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):

By the way, if Haut-Bailly is shortened to HB, how do we refer to Haut Brion? "Your Majesty"?
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Unaffordium? Or just HB$$$?

Good to know about the '82 Gruaud. Planning to open a bottle of that later this month, and pretty excited.

I'm with Keith/Brad on the '90 Pape - I have found considerable variation with that wine and a couple of bottles showing more roasted notes than I'd like, but generally my experience has been that it's proper Graves flavours, rather than the Rollandized crap they made 98 and onwards.

Sadly the 90 Lagrange (assuming you mean the St. Julien) is no longer that much of a secret as an underperformer - I've kept an eye out for it at various auctions in the past, but am getting consistently outbid by a lot there. The rest of the market seems to have figured out how good that wine is.
 
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