La Paulee 2019
- Thread starter Jeff Grossman
- Start date
I perceived that behind the wood was some nice material. But your oak tolerance is higher than mine, as we have previously discussed. Truly, no criticism intended. I'm wondering if there are Burgundy producers you like (or others like) who use zero new wood. I have less experience than most of you in this part of the world so I'd appreciate some suggestions. I used to enjoy the Chandon de Briailles whites (and reds) quite a bit, but I wonder if I would still?
As a fan of Louis Michel Chablis I also would like to hear some recommendations for other white Burgundy without the new oak flavors. My tolerance for oak is higher than my spouse. She has a hard time finishing a glass of Chardonnay with new oak flavors, even when the wine is aged and mature.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Athenaïs de Béru, Thomas Pico, Emmanuel Giboulot, Renaud Boyer, Dominique Derain, Pierre Fenals, Julien Guillot are some that fit the bill. I'd include Oronce de Beler if he wasn't v.a.-prone.
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
Next time we should organize a disorderly jeeb...Usually Brad does that, but I didn't want to bother him this time around...I think we did PDH the last time I was in NYC for this stuff -
The final blind wine was Lafon - the oak was ever present. Yeah, I guessed Chassagne on the '15 Dauvissat as well - it was the vintage speaking.
I thought Gibourg and Hudelot really stood above the rest...Liger-Belair were fine, but not worth multiples of the cost of the others and I'd rather drink Gibourg and Hudelot - less extracted, less concentrated...
I was pretty unimpressed with the off-the-grid thing...Lots of folks there who were crowding up in front of the tables drinking to get drunk...it was frustrating...and I can't say that I was thrilled by the wines either - Pataille's base Aligote (not the Dore single vineyards) was ok...
The Chassagne terroir seminar was actually quite interesting...I learned stuff. Some moron asked about pox and it derailed the whole thing - we had just one hour and the responses to that Q took about 10 minutes.
The Burgundy vintages seminar was also ok...96 and 08 have parallels, no shit.
The welcome party was actually pretty fun - mags of random stuff from the producers.
I've attended Paulee since the 2005 vintage and this year it seemed that a.) the producers were generally weaker and b.) the verticals focused on a lot of shitty vintages...I don't know, I thought it was one of the worst Paulee's.
Anyway, for me, the highlight were the dinners outside the event - the Modern, Bernardin, Marea, RacinesNY, etc - tried to get Culang to come along, but he was sick...got to drink lots of goodies - 95 Verset, 02 Overnoy Poulsard, 95 Robert Denis, LC16 Prevost Fac-Simile, LC15 (12) Prevost Climax, 12 Suenen Robarts, 96 Giacosa Villero, La Bota #57, 12 Roches Neuves Romans, and stuff.
-mark
The final blind wine was Lafon - the oak was ever present. Yeah, I guessed Chassagne on the '15 Dauvissat as well - it was the vintage speaking.
I thought Gibourg and Hudelot really stood above the rest...Liger-Belair were fine, but not worth multiples of the cost of the others and I'd rather drink Gibourg and Hudelot - less extracted, less concentrated...
I was pretty unimpressed with the off-the-grid thing...Lots of folks there who were crowding up in front of the tables drinking to get drunk...it was frustrating...and I can't say that I was thrilled by the wines either - Pataille's base Aligote (not the Dore single vineyards) was ok...
The Chassagne terroir seminar was actually quite interesting...I learned stuff. Some moron asked about pox and it derailed the whole thing - we had just one hour and the responses to that Q took about 10 minutes.
The Burgundy vintages seminar was also ok...96 and 08 have parallels, no shit.
The welcome party was actually pretty fun - mags of random stuff from the producers.
I've attended Paulee since the 2005 vintage and this year it seemed that a.) the producers were generally weaker and b.) the verticals focused on a lot of shitty vintages...I don't know, I thought it was one of the worst Paulee's.
Anyway, for me, the highlight were the dinners outside the event - the Modern, Bernardin, Marea, RacinesNY, etc - tried to get Culang to come along, but he was sick...got to drink lots of goodies - 95 Verset, 02 Overnoy Poulsard, 95 Robert Denis, LC16 Prevost Fac-Simile, LC15 (12) Prevost Climax, 12 Suenen Robarts, 96 Giacosa Villero, La Bota #57, 12 Roches Neuves Romans, and stuff.
-mark
Any words of wisdom on 08 based on recent experience? I know generalizations are useless, but in my limited experience the fruit on 08 has seemed much less vibrant than what I remember from 96, which means it seems like much more of a gamble to just put them away and wait 10 more years!
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
I haven't drank too many 08s myself, but the discussion revolved around the acid vs. fruit profile, and the fruit not holding up to the acid for both 96 and 08...my experience with 96s has been pretty consistent with that. I haven't opened many of my 08s.
-mark
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
Right.
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
Would be happy to plan a dinner next time. But I’d try not to bring babies like 96 Giacosa Villero and 95 Denis.
I can imagine Lignier CdlR might not be for everyone. Did you try the Drouhin reds and Gouges?
I also wasn’t so impressed with Liger-Belair. I thought the two that I listed somehow stood out almost in spite of the winemaking, and am having trouble understanding the steadily growing hype at least based on the small sampling I’ve had over the last couple vintages.
Can’t comment on previous Paulees, but the whole point for me was to get a sense of 2016. I was also quite happy with the quality of the whites - not a huge number of grand cru but many fine premier crus, including from some growers I didn’t have a lot of experience with. (I didn’t do the verticals because it didn’t seem worth it, and agree the 2014 verticals I passed on two years ago was much more appealing on paper.)
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
GIacosa was fine with lunch. I wasn't talking about H. LIgnier CDLR, but rather various wines from Liger-Belair. I actually think H. Lignier were fine...the MSD VV is a good value. 2016 whites are not my favorite, but better and more typical than 2015. I actually like the style of the 2016 reds overall - less sur mature vs. 2015...but somewhat dense and in need for extended aging.
-mark
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
Only the few which actually have fruit left! :-) . I had a bunch of terrible experiences and sold most of the rest. I'm sure you've had much more than I, Maureen, so I trust you.
-mark
Mark Davis
Mark Davis
Interesting.
I've always thought acid was pretty much a constant, while fruit density and tannin generally degrade over time.
I've never experienced fruit coming back after it seemingly dries out. Certainly, fruit can express itself differently over time and certainly aromatics can become more pronounced over time, but the density of fruit on the palate seems to go down over time in my experience, rather than up.
Perhaps it is just the perception of fruit that changes to make one think it is increasing over time, maybe as a result of something like diminishing masking effects of oak as it integrates.
I've heard some claim poxed wine burgs had recovered - I'm also skeptical of that...
-mark
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Really? Dried-out is basically the description of any closed wine. But the fruit comes back. If it doesn't, may as well dump all your 2005s, etc.
Inevitably imprecise words and all, but my reaction to 2005 red Burgundies has never been 'this feels like it's lacking fruit'.
You can still perceive vintage variation in density, weight and flavor profile when a wine is closed, it's just that the acids/tannins dominate the drinking process, whereas they are more harmonious/resolved at later stages.
At least that's how I've always processed things.
You can still perceive vintage variation in density, weight and flavor profile when a wine is closed, it's just that the acids/tannins dominate the drinking process, whereas they are more harmonious/resolved at later stages.
At least that's how I've always processed things.
Bill Lundstrom
Bill Lundstrom
closed to me is tight and unyielding but the fruit is still discernible. the descriptor "dried out" to me means the wine's fruit is long gone.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
Old Mister Johnson had troubles of his own
The wine had too much fruit that wouldn't calm down;
He waited and aged it to give the fruit away,
He sold it on Ebay to someone far, far away
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.
So he gave it to Maureen as a trial balloon,
He asked her to taste it, but no time soon;
Maureen popped it open after twenty years away,
Posted to the disorderlies, who had their say...
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.
Some said it was closed, others said it was corked,
We all chewed it over like real cork dorks,
Some regretted the vintage for which they did pay,
Some claimed to discern just a hint of clay
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.
The wine had too much fruit that wouldn't calm down;
He waited and aged it to give the fruit away,
He sold it on Ebay to someone far, far away
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.
So he gave it to Maureen as a trial balloon,
He asked her to taste it, but no time soon;
Maureen popped it open after twenty years away,
Posted to the disorderlies, who had their say...
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.
Some said it was closed, others said it was corked,
We all chewed it over like real cork dorks,
Some regretted the vintage for which they did pay,
Some claimed to discern just a hint of clay
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.