La Paulee 2019

[Yixin]

The '96s from the south are starting to open. Lafarge (Clos du Ch. des Ducs), Pousse d'Or (Bousse d'Or) and de Montille (en Champans) all really nice so far this year. Amazing what a student budget could stretch to in those days!

 

[Mark Davis]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

I've never experienced fruit coming back after it seemingly dries out.

Really? Dried-out is basically the description of any closed wine. But the fruit comes back. If it doesn't, may as well dump all your 2005s, etc.

closed to me is tight and unyielding but the fruit is still discernible. the descriptor "dried out" to me means the wine's fruit is long gone.

I agree with Bill and Rahsaan. I've never experienced fruit coming back after it dries out, but what do I know...

To me, 2005 has always been an 11/10 on the fruit scale...regardless of how open/closed the wines are - have to admit, I rarely touch them...just village level stuff at this point and even most of those need more time...11/10 on the maturity scale as well, which is what I worry about. I have a lot of them...and I doubt they will ever show the balance of, 2010s, for instance.

-mark

 

[Mark Davis]

originally posted by Yixin:
The '96s from the south are starting to open. Lafarge (Clos du Ch. des Ducs), Pousse d'Or (Bousse d'Or) and de Montille (en Champans) all really nice so far this year. Amazing what a student budget could stretch to in those days!

Interesting, I think I got rid of some Lafarge recently...probably an unwise move...anyway, have some Clavelier Combe d'Orveau VV left...and that is it. I'll try that sometime soon-ish and report back.

-mark

 

[Jayson Cohen]

Seems like a nonlinear problem. The pundits, e.g., claimed that many 1966, 1970, and 1975 Bordeaux had dried out, the tannins having outlasted and ultimately overwhelmed the fruit. That was wrong.

I’ve had old Barolo that seemed dried out and fruitless, and then boom, a few hours after a careful decant, there’s the fruit.

So I’m very, very skeptical when for certain wines someone says the fruit has dried out.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Old Mister Johnson had troubles of his own
The wine had too much fruit that wouldn't calm down;
He waited and aged it to give the fruit away,
He sold it on Ebay to someone far, far away

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

So he gave it to Maureen as a trial balloon,
He asked her to taste it, but no time soon;
Maureen popped it open after twenty years away,
Posted to the disorderlies, who had their say...

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Some said it was closed, others said it was corked,
We all chewed it over like real cork dorks,
Some regretted the vintage for which they did pay,
Some claimed to discern just a hint of clay

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Bravo (though Dryden would have been a beter model to follow).

 

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Old Mister Johnson had troubles of his own
The wine had too much fruit that wouldn't calm down;
He waited and aged it to give the fruit away,
He sold it on Ebay to someone far, far away

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

So he gave it to Maureen as a trial balloon,
He asked her to taste it, but no time soon;
Maureen popped it open after twenty years away,
Posted to the disorderlies, who had their say...

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Some said it was closed, others said it was corked,
We all chewed it over like real cork dorks,
Some regretted the vintage for which they did pay,
Some claimed to discern just a hint of clay

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Bravo (though Dryden would have been a beter model to follow).

Everyone (here) is a critic.

I would just leave it at “Bravo!” Or “Awesome, Dude!”

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Yixin:
The '96s from the south are starting to open. Lafarge (Clos du Ch. des Ducs), Pousse d'Or (Bousse d'Or) and de Montille (en Champans) all really nice so far this year. Amazing what a student budget could stretch to in those days!

I know, right?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Mark Davis:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

I've never experienced fruit coming back after it seemingly dries out.

Really? Dried-out is basically the description of any closed wine. But the fruit comes back. If it doesn't, may as well dump all your 2005s, etc.

closed to me is tight and unyielding but the fruit is still discernible. the descriptor "dried out" to me means the wine's fruit is long gone.

I agree with Bill and Rahsaan. I've never experienced fruit coming back after it dries out, but what do I know...

To me, 2005 has always been an 11/10 on the fruit scale...regardless of how open/closed the wines are - have to admit, I rarely touch them...just village level stuff at this point and even most of those need more time...11/10 on the maturity scale as well, which is what I worry about. I have a lot of them...and I doubt they will ever show the balance of, 2010s, for instance.

-mark

I think that Burgundies, in particular, develop bottle sweetness with enough age. When people say the fruit comes back around, they mean that kind of fruit. I had a 1996 Barthod Bourgogne that was showing that sort of fruit a couple summers ago. A 1995 Rollin Ile did the same at the same time.

I rarely find Burgundy to be "dried out" as I think of it. To me that signifies that the fruit has dropped out and the tannins are still there. Burgundy tends to go leafy and quiet when it goes over the hill. I've never experienced older tertiary Burgundy that was tart with acidity. (As an aside, I fear this for 2005 Grezeaux.)

 

[Bill Lundstrom]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Mark Davis:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

I've never experienced fruit coming back after it seemingly dries out.

Really? Dried-out is basically the description of any closed wine. But the fruit comes back. If it doesn't, may as well dump all your 2005s, etc.

closed to me is tight and unyielding but the fruit is still discernible. the descriptor "dried out" to me means the wine's fruit is long gone.

I agree with Bill and Rahsaan. I've never experienced fruit coming back after it dries out, but what do I know...

To me, 2005 has always been an 11/10 on the fruit scale...regardless of how open/closed the wines are - have to admit, I rarely touch them...just village level stuff at this point and even most of those need more time...11/10 on the maturity scale as well, which is what I worry about. I have a lot of them...and I doubt they will ever show the balance of, 2010s, for instance.

-mark

I think that Burgundies, in particular, develop bottle sweetness with enough age. When people say the fruit comes back around, they mean that kind of fruit. I had a 1996 Barthod Bourgogne that was showing that sort of fruit a couple summers ago. A 1995 Rollin Ile did the same at the same time.

I rarely find Burgundy to be "dried out" as I think of it. To me that signifies that the fruit has dropped out and the tannins are still there. Burgundy tends to go leafy and quiet when it goes over the hill. I've never experienced older tertiary Burgundy that was tart with acidity. (As an aside, I fear this for 2005 Grezeaux.)

definitely agree with this. old Ampeau Volnay has a distinct leafy aroma that makes me think of kicking up leaves off forest floor in Autumn.

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

I'll keep this in mind next time I curse a Burg for being 'underfruited'!

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Old Mister Johnson had troubles of his own
The wine had too much fruit that wouldn't calm down;
He waited and aged it to give the fruit away,
He sold it on Ebay to someone far, far away

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

So he gave it to Maureen as a trial balloon,
He asked her to taste it, but no time soon;
Maureen popped it open after twenty years away,
Posted to the disorderlies, who had their say...

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Some said it was closed, others said it was corked,
We all chewed it over like real cork dorks,
Some regretted the vintage for which they did pay,
Some claimed to discern just a hint of clay

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Bravo! I didn't know anyone knew about that song anymore.

 

[Jay Miller]

Encore, encore!

For both the fruit and and the song that is.

I think the concepts of "the fruit won't outlast the tannins" and "the fruit won't outlast the acid" have done a lot of damage to wine over the years.

I agree that 1996 Burgundies are starting to come around and I'm not the least concerned about my 2008s other than the probability that my palate will already be shot when they're ready to drink. By then I'll be buying up 2007 Chateauneufs on winebid.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Seems like a nonlinear problem. The pundits, e.g., claimed that many 1966, 1970, and 1975 Bordeaux had dried out, the tannins having outlasted and ultimately overwhelmed the fruit. That was wrong.

I’ve had old Barolo that seemed dried out and fruitless, and then boom, a few hours after a careful decant, there’s the fruit.

So I’m very, very skeptical when for certain wines someone says the fruit has dried out.

This. I've had great luck buying those "tired" vintages on the secondary market ('88 Burgundy, '66 Bdx) and in almost all cases they've benefited from more time in the cellar. Granted, one has to appreciate the charm of older wine, but it certainly rewards the patient.

Mark Lipton

 

[Michael Lewis]

Anyone worried about his or her 2008 Burgundy, please sell it to me.

 

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Almost forgot. Fichet. Love his wines.

Thanks for the notes. I am interested in hearing what you and VLM like about the wines as they are available here from the Monopoly (both Meursault and Meursault Le Tesson, but only 2013 and 2014). After reading previous laudatory comments I bought a bottle of the old-vines Bourgogne Blanc but found it too oaky to drink.

All the wines see some new wood. I don't find them too oaky to my palate. I think they are on a 5 year barrel rotation, so 20% new wood every year, but it may be even less. I quite like the Bourgogne VV and we drink the wines regularly.

I perceived that behind the wood was some nice material. But your oak tolerance is higher than mine, as we have previously discussed. Truly, no criticism intended. I'm wondering if there are Burgundy producers you like (or others like) who use zero new wood. I have less experience than most of you in this part of the world so I'd appreciate some suggestions. I used to enjoy the Chandon de Briailles whites (and reds) quite a bit, but I wonder if I would still?

I’ve been mulling Marc’s question in the back of my head but without any outright research. In addition to Oswaldo’s suggestions, Rollin uses barrels but I normally don’t find oaky aromas. Sous Fretille especially is a wonderful wine.

I also have found Mikulski’s wines don’t show their oak.

But my threshold and sensitivities may be different.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:

originally posted by VLM:

I think that Burgundies, in particular, develop bottle sweetness with enough age. When people say the fruit comes back around, they mean that kind of fruit. I had a 1996 Barthod Bourgogne that was showing that sort of fruit a couple summers ago. A 1995 Rollin Ile did the same at the same time.

I rarely find Burgundy to be "dried out" as I think of it. To me that signifies that the fruit has dropped out and the tannins are still there. Burgundy tends to go leafy and quiet when it goes over the hill. I've never experienced older tertiary Burgundy that was tart with acidity. (As an aside, I fear this for 2005 Grezeaux.)

definitely agree with this. old Ampeau Volnay has a distinct leafy aroma that makes me think of kicking up leaves off forest floor in Autumn.

One of the very best things about mature PN, IMHO. Particularly Burgundy, but I've had this in quite a few mature Oregon PNs and some Californian.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Old Mister Johnson had troubles of his own
The wine had too much fruit that wouldn't calm down;
He waited and aged it to give the fruit away,
He sold it on Ebay to someone far, far away

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

So he gave it to Maureen as a trial balloon,
He asked her to taste it, but no time soon;
Maureen popped it open after twenty years away,
Posted to the disorderlies, who had their say...

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Some said it was closed, others said it was corked,
We all chewed it over like real cork dorks,
Some regretted the vintage for which they did pay,
Some claimed to discern just a hint of clay

But the fruit came back the very next day,
The fruit came back, he thought it was a goner
But the fruit came back; it just couldn't stay away.

Bravo! I didn't know anyone knew about that song anymore.

Thanks; I actually first encountered it in the early 2000s, courtesy of the late, great Woods Tea Company. Great musicians with a terrific sense of humor, they mixed originals, Irish/New England folk, funny parodies of past folk musicians and comedy club worthy banter and one-liners.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Jay Miller:
Encore, encore!

For both the fruit and and the song that is.

I think the concepts of "the fruit won't outlast the tannins" and "the fruit won't outlast the acid" have done a lot of damage to wine over the years.

I agree that 1996 Burgundies are starting to come around and I'm not the least concerned about my 2008s other than the probability that my palate will already be shot when they're ready to drink. By then I'll be buying up 2007 Chateauneufs on winebid.

My quarrel with the 96s was never lack of, or disappearing, fruit. But for years that fruit stayed primary, simple and not very interesting, aggravated by tart acids and campari-like bitterness. Just no fun and no mellowing or development, so I gave up. Although Claude said they would come around, and he was right about the 93s.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Seems like a nonlinear problem. The pundits, e.g., claimed that many 1966, 1970, and 1975 Bordeaux had dried out, the tannins having outlasted and ultimately overwhelmed the fruit. That was wrong.

I’ve had old Barolo that seemed dried out and fruitless, and then boom, a few hours after a careful decant, there’s the fruit.

So I’m very, very skeptical when for certain wines someone says the fruit has dried out.

This. I've had great luck buying those "tired" vintages on the secondary market ('88 Burgundy, '66 Bdx) and in almost all cases they've benefited from more time in the cellar. Granted, one has to appreciate the charm of older wine, but it certainly rewards the patient.

Mark Lipton

If you can turn the other way on the politics, the de Montille 1988s are fantastic.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Seems like a nonlinear problem. The pundits, e.g., claimed that many 1966, 1970, and 1975 Bordeaux had dried out, the tannins having outlasted and ultimately overwhelmed the fruit. That was wrong.

I’ve had old Barolo that seemed dried out and fruitless, and then boom, a few hours after a careful decant, there’s the fruit.

So I’m very, very skeptical when for certain wines someone says the fruit has dried out.

This. I've had great luck buying those "tired" vintages on the secondary market ('88 Burgundy, '66 Bdx) and in almost all cases they've benefited from more time in the cellar. Granted, one has to appreciate the charm of older wine, but it certainly rewards the patient.

Mark Lipton

If you can turn the other way on the politics, the de Montille 1988s are fantastic.

I had some of their '88s in the past (Champans IIRC) but have now drunk them all up. Not buying any new Montille (or Montevertine, sadly) for the reasons you cite.

Mark Lipton