Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
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La Paulee 2019
- Thread starter Jeff Grossman
- Start date
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
originally posted by Yixin:
The '96s from the south are starting to open. Lafarge (Clos du Ch. des Ducs), Pousse d'Or (Bousse d'Or) and de Montille (en Champans) all really nice so far this year. Amazing what a student budget could stretch to in those days!
I looked and realized I am almost out of 96s. But I do have a couple bottles of Angerville Champans if anyone in NYC wants to attempt to replicate Yixin’s Volnay successes.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Yixin:
The '96s from the south are starting to open. Lafarge (Clos du Ch. des Ducs), Pousse d'Or (Bousse d'Or) and de Montille (en Champans) all really nice so far this year. Amazing what a student budget could stretch to in those days!
I looked and realized I am almost out of 96s. But I do have a couple bottles of Angerville Champans if anyone in NYC wants to attempt to replicate Yixin’s Volnay successes.
I have only a single bottle of '96 burg: Pousse d'Or Volnay Caillerets.
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Seems like a nonlinear problem. The pundits, e.g., claimed that many 1966, 1970, and 1975 Bordeaux had dried out, the tannins having outlasted and ultimately overwhelmed the fruit. That was wrong.
I’ve had old Barolo that seemed dried out and fruitless, and then boom, a few hours after a careful decant, there’s the fruit.
So I’m very, very skeptical when for certain wines someone says the fruit has dried out.
This. I've had great luck buying those "tired" vintages on the secondary market ('88 Burgundy, '66 Bdx) and in almost all cases they've benefited from more time in the cellar. Granted, one has to appreciate the charm of older wine, but it certainly rewards the patient.
Mark Lipton
If you can turn the other way on the politics, the de Montille 1988s are fantastic.
I had some of their '88s in the past (Champans IIRC) but have now drunk them all up. Not buying any new Montille (or Montevertine, sadly) for the reasons you cite.
Mark Lipton
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
So, what is the cutoff date if you want/need to be pee-cee about it?
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Looking into the matter some more, apparently Hubert had been to two weddings that day AND was drinking at dinner. He made the remark, three sheets to the wind, because he hated Pierre Rovani, who he bumped into on the way to the WC. When he sobered up he wrote a 3-page long apology to Rovani.originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
But that's not very exciting and isn't remembered much around teh intertubez.
And, as Jayson says, that man is dead.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Jay Miller:
Encore, encore!
For both the fruit and and the song that is.
I think the concepts of "the fruit won't outlast the tannins" and "the fruit won't outlast the acid" have done a lot of damage to wine over the years.
I agree that 1996 Burgundies are starting to come around and I'm not the least concerned about my 2008s other than the probability that my palate will already be shot when they're ready to drink. By then I'll be buying up 2007 Chateauneufs on winebid.
My quarrel with the 96s was never lack of, or disappearing, fruit. But for years that fruit stayed primary, simple and not very interesting, aggravated by tart acids and campari-like bitterness. Just no fun and no mellowing or development, so I gave up. Although Claude said they would come around, and he was right about the 93s.
Oh yes. The 1996s were unpleasant for a very long time. Still not shy in the acid department but starting to become much more enjoyable to drink.
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Inevitably imprecise words and all, but my reaction to 2005 red Burgundies has never been 'this feels like it's lacking fruit'.
You can still perceive vintage variation in density, weight and flavor profile when a wine is closed, it's just that the acids/tannins dominate the drinking process, whereas they are more harmonious/resolved at later stages.
At least that's how I've always processed things.
The 96s, when young, were so gloriously fruited they were almost jammy, saved only by their acidities. But like Tom said, in burg (probably with other wines too but burg is what I know best) fruit can go to sleep and seem absent for ages only to return and makes the wines beautiful accompaniments to food. The 1988 vintage was like this, although with both seemingly high tannins as well as acidity, but those of us who were faithful and patient have been well-rewarded.
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Looking into the matter some more, apparently Hubert had been to two weddings that day AND was drinking at dinner. He made the remark, three sheets to the wind, because he hated Pierre Rovani, who he bumped into on the way to the WC. When he sobered up he wrote a 3-page long apology to Rovani.originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
But that's not very exciting and isn't remembered much around teh intertubez.
And, as Jayson says, that man is dead.
I don't know Etienne and did not know Hubert, but it wasn't just the 9/11 comments, which were dumb but stuff happens. It was the notorious far right politics and antisemitism and racism that went with them. Like I said this is all second hand, but reliable. How you feel about Vichy collaborators is up to you. I don't have a hard stance and have some de Montille in my cellar, but I feel a bit icky about it, same with Montevertine. The latter is tougher to pass on because it is such a shining light and was my one true love in the region. The local distributor has an African wife and will not bring the wines in except by special order. We've been friends for 20 years, so I'm reluctant to cross that line. I'd probably buy some de Montille, but there are so many good producers in Burgundy and the cost is quite high, so I can turn elsewhere pretty easily.
If we start digging into everyone's politics (either paysan farmers or anyone with a de in front of their surname), we might not like what we see and everyone has to find their own comfort level with the producers they support. Obviously, neither of de Montille nor Montevertine give a shit what I think.
VLM’s comments encapsulate my own thinking. To be clear, I’m not going to apply some litmus test of ideological purity before every wine purchase. However, when I am confronted with objectionable behavior or talk, I’m not going to ignore it, either. There are so many people making great wine who are also great people. Why give my money an an asshole if I don’t have to?
Mark Lipton
(Not buying any Barilla pasta, either)
Mark Lipton
(Not buying any Barilla pasta, either)
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
What's wrong with Barilla pasta?
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by MLipton:
...Why give my money an an asshole if I don’t have to?
Mark Lipton
(Not buying any Barilla pasta, either)
This is the crux of the matter.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Guido Barilla publicly commented that he would never use a gay family in his ads and, if gays don't like that, of course, they can go eat some other brand. (There was more but this was the takeaway.)originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
What's wrong with Barilla pasta?
Barilla US immediately issued its own statement supporting diversity.
Over the course of the following year Barilla IT also figured out that boycotts actually do hurt and that Guido shouldn't talk to the press anymore. And they have made apparently-sincere efforts to mend fences.
As with wine, there are many other good brands of pasta around, though a part of me would like to reward them for getting on the right path, however tardy.
Snopes
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Guido Barilla publicly commented that he would never use a gay family in his ads and, if gays don't like that, of course, they can go eat some other brand. (There was more but this was the takeaway.)originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
What's wrong with Barilla pasta?
Barilla US immediately issued its own statement supporting diversity.
Over the course of the following year Barilla IT also figured out that boycotts actually do hurt and that Guido shouldn't talk to the press anymore. And they have made apparently-sincere efforts to mend fences.
As with wine, there are many other good brands of pasta around, though a part of me would like to reward them for getting on the right path, however tardy.
Snopes
Interesting that in the same interview he said he supported gay marriage. people can be complicated.
I refused to step foot in a Wendy's until after Dave Thomas passed away. Of course his remarks were much more objectionable.
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Looking into the matter some more, apparently Hubert had been to two weddings that day AND was drinking at dinner. He made the remark, three sheets to the wind, because he hated Pierre Rovani, who he bumped into on the way to the WC. When he sobered up he wrote a 3-page long apology to Rovani.originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
But that's not very exciting and isn't remembered much around teh intertubez.
And, as Jayson says, that man is dead.
I don't know Etienne and did not know Hubert, but it wasn't just the 9/11 comments, which were dumb but stuff happens. It was the notorious far right politics and antisemitism and racism that went with them. Like I said this is all second hand, but reliable. How you feel about Vichy collaborators is up to you. I don't have a hard stance and have some de Montille in my cellar, but I feel a bit icky about it, same with Montevertine. The latter is tougher to pass on because it is such a shining light and was my one true love in the region. The local distributor has an African wife and will not bring the wines in except by special order. We've been friends for 20 years, so I'm reluctant to cross that line. I'd probably buy some de Montille, but there are so many good producers in Burgundy and the cost is quite high, so I can turn elsewhere pretty easily.
If we start digging into everyone's politics (either paysan farmers or anyone with a de in front of their surname), we might not like what we see and everyone has to find their own comfort level with the producers they support. Obviously, neither of de Montille nor Montevertine give a shit what I think.
Can you send me some links (privately if preferred). May cause me to sell what remains.
I stopped buying Monvertine a while ago, which I agree was difficult.
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Looking into the matter some more, apparently Hubert had been to two weddings that day AND was drinking at dinner. He made the remark, three sheets to the wind, because he hated Pierre Rovani, who he bumped into on the way to the WC. When he sobered up he wrote a 3-page long apology to Rovani.originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
I thought Etienne had publicly repudiated his father’s comments/conduct on 9/11, which were repulsive. Should we burden the son with the sins of his (now deceased) father?
But that's not very exciting and isn't remembered much around teh intertubez.
And, as Jayson says, that man is dead.
I don't know Etienne and did not know Hubert, but it wasn't just the 9/11 comments, which were dumb but stuff happens. It was the notorious far right politics and antisemitism and racism that went with them. Like I said this is all second hand, but reliable. How you feel about Vichy collaborators is up to you. I don't have a hard stance and have some de Montille in my cellar, but I feel a bit icky about it, same with Montevertine. The latter is tougher to pass on because it is such a shining light and was my one true love in the region. The local distributor has an African wife and will not bring the wines in except by special order. We've been friends for 20 years, so I'm reluctant to cross that line. I'd probably buy some de Montille, but there are so many good producers in Burgundy and the cost is quite high, so I can turn elsewhere pretty easily.
If we start digging into everyone's politics (either paysan farmers or anyone with a de in front of their surname), we might not like what we see and everyone has to find their own comfort level with the producers they support. Obviously, neither of de Montille nor Montevertine give a shit what I think.
Can you send me some links (privately if preferred). May cause me to sell what remains.
I stopped buying Monvertine a while ago, which I agree was difficult.
No links, this is all information from conversations from years ago. Again, it is a long time ago and there is the question of the sins of the father and all that. I ordered a 1998 de Montille Taillepieds at a restaurant a few months ago that was fantastic, so it's not like I'm towing some sort of hard line myself.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
FIFYoriginally posted by VLM:
...so it's not like I'm toeing some sort of hard line myself.