TN: Wu’s Wonton King (May 1, 2019)

Jeff Grossman

Jeff Grossman
attendees: Tom R, Jamie W, John M, Jonathan S, Shan A, Fabio+Melissa, Jeff

Tom is visiting and calls for jeeb. Wu's Wonton is the place.

Heedless geeks that we are we have ordered nothing ahead: roast suckling pig, the giant crab, even razor clams must be ordered ahead. So we simply pick off the menu. Tom wants spareribs, we all want Peking Duck, but we also order the crispy spicy whitebait and a few gluten-free dishes requested by two jeebusites.

Among its treasures the menu offers "Sauteed Clam with Potty Milk" which provides an unfamiliar yet instantly repellent visual image. I thought translation technology has gotten so much better lately?

I am on time and, somehow, first. Eventually, the geeks roll in. Jamie has brought two unexpected guests along with him: the owners/winemakers of the Sicilian property Feudo Montoni. They are delightful company. During conversation we discover that they make a passito (grillo, cataratto, nero d’avola, and one more red grape) that is not yet brought into the US. They show us pictures of the domaine at this time with the entire front courtyard filled with baskets of drying grapes. Melissa says the animals do not bother with it but the bees do. She occasionally finds grape skins that have been completely hollowed-out by them!

Meanwhile, John M is providing lots of champagne details (it is one of his expertises for CSW, after all).

A lovely evening. Thank you to everyone involved.

Oh, yes, there was some wine poured:

Barrat-Masson NV Champagne Brut "Fleur de Craie" - base vintage is 2014; this is John’s hand-carry; it’s a BdB, quite tangy, bright and lemony, super-crispy, very late showing of chalky minerality, a little one-note today

Alexandre Filaine NV Champagne Brut "Speciale" - L16, a straight-up champagne, ripeness kept in check but a little non-descript, maybe closed

Suenen 2013 Champagne Extra-Brut GC BdB "Les Robarts" - the label is a novella: disgorged 29/06/17, dosage 1 g/l, lot #78-10-18; amazingly forward, slightly autolytic but this is no bakery back door; the mid-palate has lots of yellow fruit and delicate soil tones, really excellent fizz

O. Horiot 2013 Rose des Riceys "En Valingrain" - vivid red-berry-and-roses nose, fragrant from several feet away... palate of juicy, spirity cherries, eventually yields a bit more fruit, somewhat too high-toned

Drouhin 1999 Beaune 1er Rouge "Clos des Mouches" - an SFJoe bottle; midweight, rather sweet cherries, rich and silky; John says the white is also drinking beautifully now

Nervi 1967 Gattinara - decanted this morning; browning is fairly far along, intensely sweet-seeming gives the mouthfeel and even some scents of brown sugar (that we know is not in there); no tannins left, no fruit either, but there’s more here than just brown leaves, interesting

Bertrand Marchand de Gramont 1996 NSG 1er "Les Hauts Pruliers" - corked to Hell and back

Drouhin 1985 Gevrey-Chambertin 1er "Les Cazetiers" - graceful and delicate, beautiful on its own but no longer can stand up to food; others like it more than me

Meo-Camuzet 2008 NSG 1er "Aux Boudots" - really pretty up-front but the mid-palate falls out and the finish is short, we all marvel but not in a good way

Drouhin 2013 Meursault 1er "Perrieres" - an oaken horror, DNPIM

Nervi-Conterno 2015 Gattinara - 375ml; so young! so much camphor! kinda hard to judge so late in the event so I’m going to withhold judgment until I can try it again (I have a bottle of the ’14 and ’15 to open side-by-side)

Versio 2015 Barbaresco - 14.5%; it is pretty but also quite spirity, which does take some of the fun out of it

Maximin Grunhauser (C. von Schubert) 2005 Abtsberg Riesling Beerenauslese - 3 536 014 11 06; very yum, sweet, light brown, all as expected

Dirler-Cade 2002 Riesling "Grand Cru Spiegel" - apricotty, golden hue and also golden raisins, this is wine to sit with for a while, I like this
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman: TN: Wu’s Wonton King (May 1, 2019) Nervi 1967 Gattinara - decanted this morning; no tannins left, no fruit either

That selection should have been a delight. Probably would have been a real treat right out of the bottle...hard to imagine a rationale for decanting that bottling so far ahead of time.

. . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman: TN: Wu’s Wonton King (May 1, 2019) Nervi 1967 Gattinara - decanted this morning; no tannins left, no fruit either

That selection should have been a delight. Probably would have been a real treat right out of the bottle...hard to imagine a rationale for decanting that bottling so far ahead of time.

. . . . Pete

C'mon man, that bottle is 52 years OLD. Surprised it showed much of anything.
 
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman: TN: Wu’s Wonton King (May 1, 2019) Nervi 1967 Gattinara - decanted this morning; no tannins left, no fruit either

That selection should have been a delight. Probably would have been a real treat right out of the bottle...hard to imagine a rationale for decanting that bottling so far ahead of time.

. . . . Pete

C'mon man, that bottle is 52 years OLD. Surprised it showed much of anything.

???
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman: TN: Wu’s Wonton King (May 1, 2019) Nervi 1967 Gattinara - decanted this morning; no tannins left, no fruit either

That selection should have been a delight. Probably would have been a real treat right out of the bottle...hard to imagine a rationale for decanting that bottling so far ahead of time.

. . . . Pete
Older nebbiolo has (up to) two good windows to drink: sometimes, though not always, right away; and then reliably a few hours later. The Nervi's owner took the safe route.

You shouldn't excerpt my note like that, by the way. You make it sound like I didn't like it, which I did. It just wasn't a fermented-fruit-juice kind of experience; it was old wine.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman: TN: Wu’s Wonton King (May 1, 2019) Nervi 1967 Gattinara - decanted this morning; no tannins left, no fruit either

That selection should have been a delight. Probably would have been a real treat right out of the bottle...hard to imagine a rationale for decanting that bottling so far ahead of time.

. . . . Pete
Older nebbiolo has (up to) two good windows to drink: sometimes, though not always, right away; and then reliably a few hours later. The Nervi's owner took the safe route.

You shouldn't excerpt my note like that, by the way. You make it sound like I didn't like it, which I did. It just wasn't a fermented-fruit-juice kind of experience; it was old wine.

Pete was just following our attorney general's lead when it comes to excerpting the findings of a third party. You can hardly blame him with role models like that. So what if the meaning is dramatically different than what was actually written? At least some of the words overlap.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thanks for a fun narrative. Was the Horiot's high-tonality a case of excess volatility or was it merely uppity?
Just uppity. I think no nail varnish was harmed in the fulfillment of this jeebus.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thanks for a fun narrative. Was the Horiot's high-tonality a case of excess volatility or was it merely uppity?
Just uppity. I think no nail varnish was harmed in the fulfillment of this jeebus.

i don't understand uppity when it comes to wine. the word means putting on airs of superiority. i don't understand how a wine could do that, so i'm guessing that you're implying something else.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thanks for a fun narrative. Was the Horiot's high-tonality a case of excess volatility or was it merely uppity?
Just uppity. I think no nail varnish was harmed in the fulfillment of this jeebus.

i don't understand uppity when it comes to wine. the word means putting on airs of superiority. i don't understand how a wine could do that, so i'm guessing that you're implying something else.

I was using Oswaldo's word. I said the wine is high-toned - just a tiny bit astringent or spirity, in the manner of VA but I didn't detect any acetic acid or acetone smell.
 
In my experience VA has to be really high to show acetone notes. Most of the time it manifests as a raspy acidity that scratches the throat unpleasantly and appears to have somehow diminished the fruit. So high-toned in Jeff's usage above jives with VA as I experience it, even without the acetone.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thanks for a fun narrative. Was the Horiot's high-tonality a case of excess volatility or was it merely uppity?
Just uppity. I think no nail varnish was harmed in the fulfillment of this jeebus.

i don't understand uppity when it comes to wine. the word means putting on airs of superiority. i don't understand how a wine could do that, so i'm guessing that you're implying something else.

I was using Oswaldo's word. I said the wine is high-toned - just a tiny bit astringent or spirity, in the manner of VA but I didn't detect any acetic acid or acetone smell.

I am a bit confused here. Astringency has nothing to do with aroma, so I assume you don't mean that when you mean "high-toned," which generally refers to aroma. Also I am assuming everyone means ethyl acetate when you are saying acetone. When Oswaldo is referring to the unpleasantness in the throat that is certainly volatile acidity (acetic acid). N'est ce pas? (or Ikke sant, as we say in Norwegian).
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thanks for a fun narrative. Was the Horiot's high-tonality a case of excess volatility or was it merely uppity?
Just uppity. I think no nail varnish was harmed in the fulfillment of this jeebus.

i don't understand uppity when it comes to wine. the word means putting on airs of superiority. i don't understand how a wine could do that...
You've never read the Spectator?
 
I believe Ethyl Acetate (nail polish smell) is formed by the intersection of ethanol and acetic acid (part of VA). It generally appears in wines with higher levels of acetic acid, but not automatically. No doubt Mark L can explain exactly what is going on.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
I believe Ethyl Acetate (nail polish smell) is formed by the intersection of ethanol and acetic acid (part of VA). It generally appears in wines with higher levels of acetic acid, but not automatically. No doubt Mark L can explain exactly what is going on.

I think intersection is a highly imprecise and erroneous term. Esterification would be more like it. I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I'm happy to let Mark L say more, though I do understand what is going on.
 
Yes, ethyl acetate is formed by an esterification of acetic acid and ethanol (it might form more readily from autoxidation of acetaldehyde and ethanol via a transient hemiacetal). Since EA is a common lab solvent, I have extensive experience with its organoleptic properties. To me and many others it smells like overripe peaches but to a minority it has an unpleasantly sharp smell, probably due to hydrolysis in the nasal passages to produce acetic acid. “Nail polish remover“ can be acetone, methyl ethyl ketone or methyl propionate, this latter smelling artificially fruity. I know that ethyl acetate is a possible fermentation byproduct, and I suspect that methyl ethyl ketone (2-butanone) can also arise. Acetone I’m not so sure about (you can smell it on the breaths of diabetics and people who’ve fasted — formed through ketosis)

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thanks for a fun narrative. Was the Horiot's high-tonality a case of excess volatility or was it merely uppity?
Just uppity. I think no nail varnish was harmed in the fulfillment of this jeebus.

i don't understand uppity when it comes to wine. the word means putting on airs of superiority. i don't understand how a wine could do that...
You've never read the Spectator?

not for years.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Yes, ethyl acetate is formed by an esterification of acetic acid and ethanol (it might form more readily from autoxidation of acetaldehyde and ethanol via a transient hemiacetal). Since EA is a common lab solvent, I have extensive experience with its organoleptic properties. To me and many others it smells like overripe peaches but to a minority it has an unpleasantly sharp smell, probably due to hydrolysis in the nasal passages to produce acetic acid. “Nail polish remover“ can be acetone, methyl ethyl ketone or methyl propionate, this latter smelling artificially fruity. I know that ethyl acetate is a possible fermentation byproduct, and I suspect that methyl ethyl ketone (2-butanone) can also arise. Acetone I’m not so sure about (you can smell it on the breaths of diabetics and people who’ve fasted — formed through ketosis)

Mark Lipton
Where is that Wine Flaws samples set when you need one?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by MLipton:
Yes, ethyl acetate is formed by an esterification of acetic acid and ethanol (it might form more readily from autoxidation of acetaldehyde and ethanol via a transient hemiacetal). Since EA is a common lab solvent, I have extensive experience with its organoleptic properties. To me and many others it smells like overripe peaches but to a minority it has an unpleasantly sharp smell, probably due to hydrolysis in the nasal passages to produce acetic acid. “Nail polish remover“ can be acetone, methyl ethyl ketone or methyl propionate, this latter smelling artificially fruity. I know that ethyl acetate is a possible fermentation byproduct, and I suspect that methyl ethyl ketone (2-butanone) can also arise. Acetone I’m not so sure about (you can smell it on the breaths of diabetics and people who’ve fasted — formed through ketosis)

Mark Lipton
Where is that Wine Flaws samples set when you need one?

Le Nez du Merde?

Mark Lipton
 
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