TN: Cellar-ish Some More (May 17, 2019)

One consideration might be to call on the credit card underwriter to void the sale/funding due to newly discovered information.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by BJ:
I'm not too worried about fake wine - not worth the bother given the level I bought at. And hard to believe they'd do it again. I'm more worried about getting delivery since I won't have it shipped due to temps until fall.
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I think fake wine is more common than people realize. If there is money to be made, people will try to make-it-until-they-fake-it. Especially with Rudy connections, I'd be wary.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
What level did you buy at? I was advised a while ago that counterfeiting is common 'mid-level' wines - say upper-end villages to 1ers, in Burgundy.

Just curious.
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'Common'?

I would guess that it's about more than just the level, but also the size of the producer.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
What level did you buy at? I was advised a while ago that counterfeiting is common 'mid-level' wines - say upper-end villages to 1ers, in Burgundy.

Just curious.
Click to expand...

'Common'?

I would guess that it's about more than just the level, but also the size of the producer.
Click to expand...

Snark much, Rahsaan? Suggest a better word.
 
I don't know. Maybe it is common. I would find that surprising, but what do I know. 'Common' suggests that most wines are counterfeit.
 
And I think BJ may have assumed (as I would) that counterfeiting is most likely to occur for the rare expensive wines and the mass cheap wines. Which leaves most of the wines discussed here out of those danger zones. But always interested to learn more.
 
I bought stuff sub $30. Hard to imagine counterfeit is likely. Just not worth the time. I'm more concerned about delivery.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I don't know. Maybe it is common. I would find that surprising, but what do I know. 'Common' suggests that most wines are counterfeit.
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Not even new news. Here are two links I pulled from WD (via the ever-popular search engine!):
- 66 million fake bottles of Cotes du Rhone click
- 1 in 5 bottles in the UK are fake click
 
originally posted by BJ:
I bought stuff sub $30. Hard to imagine counterfeit is likely. Just not worth the time. I'm more concerned about delivery.
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The couple cases I received are legit. I didn't buy anything super expensive. I opened a 16 Fichet from the cases and it was on point.

Does anyone really think some dude in LA is faking Gahier and Dorbon? The fakery mentioned in Jeff's post above is done on an industrial scale (i.e., mixing wine from the Languedoc or Spain into "Cotes du Rhone").
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by BJ:
I bought stuff sub $30. Hard to imagine counterfeit is likely. Just not worth the time. I'm more concerned about delivery.
Click to expand...

The couple cases I received are legit. I didn't buy anything super expensive. I opened a 16 Fichet from the cases and it was on point.

Does anyone really think some dude in LA is faking Gahier and Dorbon? The fakery mentioned in Jeff's post above is done on an industrial scale (i.e., mixing wine from the Languedoc or Spain into "Cotes du Rhone").
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that, but grey market stuff can sometimes be less than dubious. When someone is selling wine at unbelievable prices, it is probably because they cannot be believed. There just is no such thing as buying wine at 1/2 of normal retail prices. I wish someone level-headed like VLM would set the record straight about prices.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by BJ:
I bought stuff sub $30. Hard to imagine counterfeit is likely. Just not worth the time. I'm more concerned about delivery.
Click to expand...

The couple cases I received are legit. I didn't buy anything super expensive. I opened a 16 Fichet from the cases and it was on point.

Does anyone really think some dude in LA is faking Gahier and Dorbon? The fakery mentioned in Jeff's post above is done on an industrial scale (i.e., mixing wine from the Languedoc or Spain into "Cotes du Rhone").
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that, but grey market stuff can sometimes be less than dubious. When someone is selling wine at unbelievable prices, it is probably because they cannot be believed. There just is no such thing as buying wine at 1/2 of normal retail prices. I wish someone level-headed like VLM would set the record straight about prices.
Click to expand...

The Dorbon and Gahier have Rosenthal back labels. All of the bottles I received had standard importer labels. The Fichet has Rare Wine Co., which handles the domaine in California.

(Nathan -- if nothing else, this thread as resulted in you being tagged as the level headed adult in the room!)
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I don't know. Maybe it is common. I would find that surprising, but what do I know. 'Common' suggests that most wines are counterfeit.
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It's common to bring a little situational context to bear, mentally, on what you read here.

I'm starting to recall some of Thor's conversations with you, from days gone by.
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by BJ:
I bought stuff sub $30. Hard to imagine counterfeit is likely. Just not worth the time. I'm more concerned about delivery.
Click to expand...

The couple cases I received are legit. I didn't buy anything super expensive. I opened a 16 Fichet from the cases and it was on point.

Does anyone really think some dude in LA is faking Gahier and Dorbon? The fakery mentioned in Jeff's post above is done on an industrial scale (i.e., mixing wine from the Languedoc or Spain into "Cotes du Rhone").
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that, but grey market stuff can sometimes be less than dubious. When someone is selling wine at unbelievable prices, it is probably because they cannot be believed. There just is no such thing as buying wine at 1/2 of normal retail prices. I wish someone level-headed like VLM would set the record straight about prices.
Click to expand...

The Dorbon and Gahier have Rosenthal back labels. All of the bottles I received had standard importer labels. The Fichet has Rare Wine Co., which handles the domaine in California.

(Nathan -- if nothing else, this thread as resulted in you being tagged as the level headed adult in the room!)
Click to expand...

If I were still ITB I'd pick up a Rosenthal wholesale list (the prices were never low) and let you know if they were selling them retail for under wholesale, which might convince you that something very well might be amiss. But I don't know.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
And I think BJ may have assumed (as I would) that counterfeiting is most likely to occur for the rare expensive wines and the mass cheap wines. Which leaves most of the wines discussed here out of those danger zones. But always interested to learn more.
Click to expand...

This is a common error. I used to think the same thing until someone (probably Jeff) cleared things up for me.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by BJ:
I bought stuff sub $30. Hard to imagine counterfeit is likely. Just not worth the time. I'm more concerned about delivery.
Click to expand...

The couple cases I received are legit. I didn't buy anything super expensive. I opened a 16 Fichet from the cases and it was on point.

Does anyone really think some dude in LA is faking Gahier and Dorbon? The fakery mentioned in Jeff's post above is done on an industrial scale (i.e., mixing wine from the Languedoc or Spain into "Cotes du Rhone").
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that, but grey market stuff can sometimes be less than dubious. When someone is selling wine at unbelievable prices, it is probably because they cannot be believed. There just is no such thing as buying wine at 1/2 of normal retail prices. I wish someone level-headed like VLM would set the record straight about prices.
Click to expand...

The Dorbon and Gahier have Rosenthal back labels. All of the bottles I received had standard importer labels. The Fichet has Rare Wine Co., which handles the domaine in California.

(Nathan -- if nothing else, this thread as resulted in you being tagged as the level headed adult in the room!)
Click to expand...

If I were still ITB I'd pick up a Rosenthal wholesale list (the prices were never low) and let you know if they were selling them retail for under wholesale, which might convince you that something very well might be amiss. But I don't know.
Click to expand...

They're clearly blowing these wines out, perhaps even at less than they paid for them. I get that, no argument from me. Inventory is a sunk cost, but retailers aren't in the business of selling for no profit. No argument there either. There are, however, legit reasons why retailers decide to get liquid. All I can say here is that the wines were delivered and are what I bought. BJ is right -- I would be a little nervous waiting on fall delivery. If the store is trying to raise cash because it's in financial straits, then they may not be in business in the fall. It's all conjecture, but that's a risk that reasonable folks could be concerned about.
 
I took delivery of some Confuron-Cotetidot from there a few months ago, no issues with legitimacy or condition. Jim is 100% correct, anyone fretting about counterfeits in this segment of the market is in tinfoil-hat territory. Counterfeiters target either luxury brands or stuff they can sell in industrial volume. Nobody is faking Louis Boillot or Jerome Chezeaux. The amazing sale prices are (a bit) less amazing when you factor in unusually high sales tax and shipping costs, but like Jim it smells to me like a "need cash now!" sale so as tempted as I was to load up on some of the stuff there I'm not sure how comfy I'd be having them sit on a few cases till the fall.
 
So...I cancelled the order, and called VISA to back that up. My take, yes they need a fast cash infusion, even to the extent the wine is under what is certainly well under wholesale. That sounds awfully unstable, and definitely a flier on delivery next fall, as Jim and Keith say.

I look at my initial response, and should have listened to my own advice.

That said - if I lived in LA, I'd be there tomorrow, and clean them out. I don't quite get how this sale has gone on this long actually. If I lived there I would have bought half the stock.
 
originally posted by mark e:
If I were still ITB I'd pick up a Rosenthal wholesale list (the prices were never low) and let you know if they were selling them retail for under wholesale, which might convince you that something very well might be amiss. But I don't know.
Click to expand...
I had the same thought and asked a friend to see the current list. The Dorbon wines are being sold at about 1/2 the WA wholesale price.
 
originally posted by BJ:
So...I cancelled the order, and called VISA to back that up. My take, yes they need a fast cash infusion, even to the extent the wine is under what is certainly well under wholesale. That sounds awfully unstable, and definitely a flier on delivery next fall, as Jim and Keith say.

I look at my initial response, and should have listened to my own advice.

That said - if I lived in LA, I'd be there tomorrow, and clean them out. I don't quite get how this sale has gone on this long actually. If I lived there I would have bought half the stock.
Click to expand...

There are a few items I'd roll the dice on, if it were late October. For me, Voillot and some Champagne. A chance to get a feel for what Marchand & Tawse is about.
 
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