TN: Cellar-ish Some More (May 17, 2019)

originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Tom Stephenson:
originally posted by robert ames:
not to argue, but the bottle has a rare wine company strip. i would expect them to spot fakes.
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Tom from The Rare Wine Co. here.
Thanks for the comment Robert. As you noted, we take provenance and authenticity quite seriously. In the interest of full transparency, below is a copy of the email (and high res. photos, apologies in advance for their size) I sent to Mark on February 27th, 2015, a few days after his purchase of the single bottle pictured above, which we ultimately credited in full.

====COPY OF FEB 27, 2015 EMAIL===

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your note.

I understand that you have concerns about the provenance -- or maybe even the authenticity -- of the bottle of 1994 Clape that you received from us. I also understand that you're a member of the wine trade, and have experience with the wine, so I've provided detailed notes, along with the attached high resolution pictures, perfect for close-up zooming, shot in our warehouse today.

We take great care and great pride in our sourcing and our standards. I'd like to re-iterate my offer (via Jeff, yesterday) that after reading the below. If you remain uncomfortable with the bottle, we ask that you permit us to refund your money and have the unopened bottle shipped back to us (at our expense, of course) so that someone else can enjoy the wine.

1) Label Change
There was a label change chez Clape around the 1994 vintage, and there's a high likelihood that the switched labels in the middle of bottling. We own stock with both labels. I'm not sure if your concern is around the "new" label or the "old" labels, but i can vouch for the authenticity of each on the 1994 bottling, which match perfectly the surrounding vintages.

2) Fill levels
Bottle fills have always been irregular at Clape (this has also been our experience with other old-school Cornas winemakers like Verset and Michel), where underfills and overfills are common. Having visited the Domaine at bottling, I can tell you that it is a family operation, where machines play only a small role. However, even so, you'll note the fill levels of wines with both 1994s labels are quite close to each other and appropriate for 20-year-old perfectly stored wines.

3) Labeling well after bottling
Even if Clape hadn't begun to use the new label in 1994, given that Cornas' worldwide appeal is a recent phenomenon, it was regular practice for a Domaine to hold back a good deal of stock (especially in vintages like 1994) and to not label them until the time of release from the Domaine. Beyond Clape, we have had countless examples of wines from Robert Michel, for example, that look "good as new" due to recent labeling at the Domaine.

4) Ex-Cellars Stock
On the 1994s with "old" label, we understand that our supplier (who we've bought 20+ vintages of Clape from) purchased the stock directly from the Domaine on release and put the wines directly into temperature controlled storage. The bottles arrived in their original cardboard case, which matches other cases that we have from the Domaine. All bottles are pristine.

5) Color
I've examined each of the bottles in the attached pictures for color, and their colors are nearly identical.

Our storage partner in Europe uses a temperature controlled facility and we record temperature in the refrigerated containers that we use to move wine. So, heat damage is very unlikely.

6) Authenticity
If someone were to go to the trouble of faking a bottle of Clape Cornas any were going to fake a bottle of old(ish) Clape, they likely wouldn't choose 1994, whose value is at best 1/3 of nearby vintages like 1988, 1990 and 1991. Further, we've been holding the old-label stock for 5 years, and at that time, the wholesale value of the wine was far closer to its (lower) 2005 value, pre-Cornas "boom."

We are 100% confident in the bottles, based on examination, knowledge of the provenance and 25 years of experience handling, drinking and selling Clape Cornas back to the 1971 vintage. This includes having had two bottles of the 1994 from the same stock featured in one of the most extensive Clape tastings ever, at Bar Boulud in October 2013. The bottles of '94 (like yours) were fully vetted not only by New York's most knowledgeable sommelier on the Northern Rhone, but by 30 experienced tasters, including our owner, Mannie Berk, and three nationally known journalists. There was not a raised eyebrow in the room. Nor should there have been.

Please let me know how you'd like us to proceed. Would you like us to issue you a refund and a call tag at this time?

Best Regards,

Tom

==
Tom Stephenson
Managing Director - Retail
The Rare Wine Co.
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We shall, I guess, be eternally in disagreement.
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As an outsider with no interest in this debate or very deep knowledge of the details, I'd say that Tom Stephenson wins on points. Why don't you just take him up on his offer of a refund?
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
As an outsider with no interest in this debate or very deep knowledge of the details, I'd say that Tom Stephenson wins on points. Why don't you just take him up on his offer of a refund?
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Jonathan, this event was 4 years ago. And, I believe mark did receive the refund.
 
I think he did. This is just a replay of events des temps perdus.

Looks like everyone behaved honorably on all sides, in any event. I'm impressed with RWC's initial response.

I guess we can surmise that they lurk here, as well, underscoring WD's signal reputation as an insider bellwether for discerning taste and quality (or a friend pointed them to this thread).
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
So why are we still going on about it and why is Tom Stephenson responding with the offer? Oh, well.
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Because we were discussing the likelihood of fakes in the mid-range of nicey-nice wines, not just plonk or vintage 1793 Ponsot. (Destemming with guillotine lends a certain je ne sais quoi to the wine....)
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

I guess we can surmise that they lurk here, as well, underscoring WD's signal reputation as an insider bellwether for discerning taste and quality (or a friend pointed them to this thread).
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Who we kidding? We have about 25-30 posters and I bet about the same number of lurkers. We are a bunch of old farts — as in we remember the last century — with persnickety tastes, contempt for obviously-lesser palates, and caustic senses of humor, and no one gives a s#%* what we think. (Unless we say the same thing on Instagram, in which case at least several dozen souls will feel sorry and at least throw a “like” bone on occasion to satisfy our craving for attention.)
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I guess we can surmise that they lurk here, as well, underscoring WD's signal reputation as an insider bellwether for discerning taste and quality (or a friend pointed them to this thread).
Click to expand...

Knew there must be a reason for wines I've loved to get jacked and become unobtainable!
 
I love this thread and the exposure of all things high and low.

Good to remember that country wines (ie Clape a la 94) were all over the place - labels, capsules, corks, bottles, whatever was at hand, etc.

And the big question is: how was the Clape 94?

My favorite memory of a Clape Cornas was buying a case of 02 (remember that vintage), opening one in my old Toyota Corolla Alltrac on a quiet sidestreet in Seattle, no glass, taking a sip, and drinking the whole fucking thing in all its wonderful ashy, earthy, nonfruity glory. 82 points, Motherfucker.
 
originally posted by BJ:
I love this thread and the exposure of all things high and low.

Good to remember that country wines (ie Clape a la 94) were all over the place - labels, capsules, corks, bottles, whatever was at hand, etc.

And the big question is: how was the Clape 94?

My favorite memory of a Clape Cornas was buying a case of 02 (remember that vintage), opening one in my old Toyota Corolla Alltrac on a quiet sidestreet in Seattle, no glass, taking a sip, and drinking the whole fucking thing in all its wonderful ashy, earthy, nonfruity glory. 82 points, Motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I have a guiltily poignant empathetic reponse,... and an envious one, since I began collecting Clape Cornas(small amounts) each vintage since 1996.
But I gotta say I never opened the bottle with my teeth and I never drank from the neck with abandon, More power to you!
 
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
originally posted by BJ:
I love this thread and the exposure of all things high and low.

Good to remember that country wines (ie Clape a la 94) were all over the place - labels, capsules, corks, bottles, whatever was at hand, etc.

And the big question is: how was the Clape 94?

My favorite memory of a Clape Cornas was buying a case of 02 (remember that vintage), opening one in my old Toyota Corolla Alltrac on a quiet sidestreet in Seattle, no glass, taking a sip, and drinking the whole fucking thing in all its wonderful ashy, earthy, nonfruity glory. 82 points, Motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I have a guiltily poignant empathetic reponse,... and an envious one, since I began collecting Clape Cornas(small amounts) each vintage since 1996.
But I gotta say I never opened the bottle with my teeth and I never drank from the neck with abandon, More power to you!
Click to expand...

teeth??
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

I guess we can surmise that they lurk here, as well, underscoring WD's signal reputation as an insider bellwether for discerning taste and quality (or a friend pointed them to this thread).
Click to expand...

Who we kidding? We have about 25-30 posters and I bet about the same number of lurkers. We are a bunch of old farts — as in we remember the last century — with persnickety tastes, contempt for obviously-lesser palates, and caustic senses of humor, and no one gives a s#%* what we think. (Unless we say the same thing on Instagram, in which case at least several dozen souls will feel sorry and at least throw a “like” bone on occasion to satisfy our craving for attention.)
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I accidentally bit my tongue (for some reason, I had it stuck in my cheek) while writing the above message, and have been in too much pain since to respond thoughtfully. Carry on without me.
 
It really was $10/bottle. Keep in mind it was 02, which had the disastervintage reputation. I believe it was Garagiste blowing it out. I have a memory like a trap for those sorts of details (others, meh).
 
I defer to your memory. Also Garagiste in a year with a bad rep makes sense. They might have been moving overstock at half price or something. I wish I'd seen that sale as I would have bought the wine in a heartbeat.
 
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
originally posted by BJ:
I love this thread and the exposure of all things high and low.

Good to remember that country wines (ie Clape a la 94) were all over the place - labels, capsules, corks, bottles, whatever was at hand, etc.

And the big question is: how was the Clape 94?

My favorite memory of a Clape Cornas was buying a case of 02 (remember that vintage), opening one in my old Toyota Corolla Alltrac on a quiet sidestreet in Seattle, no glass, taking a sip, and drinking the whole fucking thing in all its wonderful ashy, earthy, nonfruity glory. 82 points, Motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I have a guiltily poignant empathetic reponse,... and an envious one, since I began collecting Clape Cornas(small amounts) each vintage since 1996.
But I gotta say I never opened the bottle with my teeth and I never drank from the neck with abandon, More power to you!
Click to expand...

Especially while driving!
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
originally posted by BJ:
I love this thread and the exposure of all things high and low.

Good to remember that country wines (ie Clape a la 94) were all over the place - labels, capsules, corks, bottles, whatever was at hand, etc.

And the big question is: how was the Clape 94?

My favorite memory of a Clape Cornas was buying a case of 02 (remember that vintage), opening one in my old Toyota Corolla Alltrac on a quiet sidestreet in Seattle, no glass, taking a sip, and drinking the whole fucking thing in all its wonderful ashy, earthy, nonfruity glory. 82 points, Motherfucker.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I have a guiltily poignant empathetic reponse,... and an envious one, since I began collecting Clape Cornas(small amounts) each vintage since 1996.
But I gotta say I never opened the bottle with my teeth and I never drank from the neck with abandon, More power to you!
Click to expand...

Especially while driving!
Click to expand...

In reverse, up a snowy hillside!
 
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