Chateau des Tours

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Boy o boy...now I know what the big deal is about. Normally out of our price range, I picked up some 14 Vaucluse fairly cheap. So darn savory and delicious - gorgeous pellucid color, engaging...Mme L kept asking if it wasn't some weird naturelle style Bourgogne...

I kept going to Overnoy as the closest parallel. A sort of ur-naturelle style. Definitely clean though.

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The people at des Tours recommend a day's breathing for all their wine. I buy the range of their wines every year from the domaine where they are affordable. After some experiment, I do not mostly agree with this recommendation. The point of it is that when you open the wine, even at 10 years old, you get vibrant fruit, but if you let it breathe, whereas you lose some of that vibrancy, the wine becomes mellower and more complex. I feel, however, that 24 hours is too much of a good thing. I usually open about 4-6 hours before I plan to drink it and pour three ounces into a glass (which is what they say in any case). If after a couple of hours, the wine in the glass hasn't moved to where I want it, I then decant, which always does the trick. But I do like to hold on to some of the fruit, while getting my tongue around some of the depth. YMMV. I am guessing, from BL's tasting note, though not with great conficence, that he didn't do much aeration. The wine does taste great that way too.
 
We popped and poured. I did not feel that was a mistake. But it would be interesting to try it with air.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The people at des Tours recommend a day's breathing for all their wine. I buy the range of their wines every year from the domaine where they are affordable. After some experiment, I do not mostly agree with this recommendation. The point of it is that when you open the wine, even at 10 years old, you get vibrant fruit, but if you let it breathe, whereas you lose some of that vibrancy, the wine becomes mellower and more complex. I feel, however, that 24 hours is too much of a good thing. I usually open about 4-6 hours before I plan to drink it and pour three ounces into a glass (which is what they say in any case). If after a couple of hours, the wine in the glass hasn't moved to where I want it, I then decant, which always does the trick. But I do like to hold on to some of the fruit, while getting my tongue around some of the depth. YMMV. I am guessing, from BL's tasting note, though not with great conficence, that he didn't do much aeration. The wine does taste great that way too.
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Thank you for sharing your experience, I guess I will try just on one of the 14s in the way you describe.

I recently opened the 01 CdR blanc, and in that case a couple of hours of decanting was clearly not enough. The last sip gave a hint of what could have been.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The people at des Tours recommend a day's breathing for all their wine. I buy the range of their wines every year from the domaine where they are affordable. After some experiment, I do not mostly agree with this recommendation. The point of it is that when you open the wine, even at 10 years old, you get vibrant fruit, but if you let it breathe, whereas you lose some of that vibrancy, the wine becomes mellower and more complex. I feel, however, that 24 hours is too much of a good thing. I usually open about 4-6 hours before I plan to drink it and pour three ounces into a glass (which is what they say in any case). If after a couple of hours, the wine in the glass hasn't moved to where I want it, I then decant, which always does the trick. But I do like to hold on to some of the fruit, while getting my tongue around some of the depth. YMMV. I am guessing, from BL's tasting note, though not with great conficence, that he didn't do much aeration. The wine does taste great that way too.
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Can you say more about general profile differences between their Vaucluse, Vacqueyras and CdR?

Also, price-wise, the CdR and Vacqueyras seem to command a premium over the Vaucluse. Is that justifiable by anything other than a seemingly higher appellation status?
 
All three reds and the two whites are different wines. I find the VdP considerably less complex than either the CdR or the Vacqueyras. I buy the white VdP regularly, which I think is a great bang for the buck, but the red not as often. All three wines cost more than their appelation companions by some. But for 13 or 14 Euros at the domaine, the CdR, which costs somewhat less than most Gigondas and many Vacqueyras is a clear value. The Vacqueyras costs what many CdPs cost (again at the domaine) and seems to me also worth the price in terms of its distinctiveness. On any one night, though, I might prefer the Cdr to the Vacqueyras. I happily buy both of them as well as the two whites. This is more than I can say for the Rayas line-up. I've had all those wines more than once but probably less than 5 times. I'd love to be served them but I can't see paying for them.

I should say that for some reason, the prices in the US are around triple what they are from the domaine and so the value issue really changes and I tend not to buy these wines here. I don't know what the situation is where you live.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
All three reds and the two whites are different wines. I find the VdP considerably less complex than either the CdR or the Vacqueyras. I buy the white VdP regularly, which I think is a great bang for the buck, but the red not as often. All three wines cost more than their appelation companions by some. But for 13 or 14 Euros at the domaine, the CdR, which costs somewhat less than most Gigondas and many Vacqueyras is a clear value. The Vacqueyras costs what many CdPs cost (again at the domaine) and seems to me also worth the price in terms of its distinctiveness. On any one night, though, I might prefer the Cdr to the Vacqueyras. I happily buy both of them as well as the two whites. This is more than I can say for the Rayas line-up. I've had all those wines more than once but probably less than 5 times. I'd love to be served them but I can't see paying for them.

I should say that for some reason, the prices in the US are around triple what they are from the domaine and so the value issue really changes and I tend not to buy these wines here. I don't know what the situation is where you live.
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And the rose, Parisy? I was in Lyon for a conference a few weeks back and one of my hosts, a self-styled wine guy, could not stop raving about it. He even dragged me to a couple of retailers looking for it. I would normally have dismissed his enthusiasm except he knew the secret Disorderly handshake.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
All three reds and the two whites are different wines. I find the VdP considerably less complex than either the CdR or the Vacqueyras. I buy the white VdP regularly, which I think is a great bang for the buck, but the red not as often. All three wines cost more than their appelation companions by some. But for 13 or 14 Euros at the domaine, the CdR, which costs somewhat less than most Gigondas and many Vacqueyras is a clear value. The Vacqueyras costs what many CdPs cost (again at the domaine) and seems to me also worth the price in terms of its distinctiveness. On any one night, though, I might prefer the Cdr to the Vacqueyras. I happily buy both of them as well as the two whites. This is more than I can say for the Rayas line-up. I've had all those wines more than once but probably less than 5 times. I'd love to be served them but I can't see paying for them.

I should say that for some reason, the prices in the US are around triple what they are from the domaine and so the value issue really changes and I tend not to buy these wines here. I don't know what the situation is where you live.
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Thanks, very helpful.
 
Part of how I react has to do with my guess that, like Rayas, these wines are not destemmed (the Rayas website has no information on the winemaking for des Tours, but it tastes like it). Keeping stems adds structure and complexity to my mind, and, for the most part, I look for it in Southern Rhones, but it can intrude if the wine can't stand up to it. I sometimes find that to be the case with the VdP, though not with the Vacqueyras and the CdR. This is clearly in the realm of the speculative and subjective, though, so you need to attend to BJ as well and try for yourself. Since 14 is not a great vintage in the area, it's a pretty good test case.
 
Enticed by the above discussion, I picked up one each of the Vaucluse 10, 11, 12 and 14. Yesterday we opened the 11. Only one hour in a decanter. Aroma was ultra refined and complex, an absolute show stopper. Everyone at table was like, whoah, what is this?! Next came disappointment: it was more sweet than acid, and the sweetness was a bit jammy. There was a too-strong note of bacon/smoked meats that a longer decant might have softened. Apparently the Grenache (75%) and Cinsault (25%) are picked late, so that may have something to do with it. But it may also be responsible for its tremendous aromatic virtues.
 
As I said, I'm not that high on the VdP red. Do try the CdR if you can get our hands on it. With some aeration, you will not find it jammy. Or, anyway, I don't.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
As I said, I'm not that high on the VdP red. Do try the CdR if you can get our hands on it. With some aeration, you will not find it jammy. Or, anyway, I don't.
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I shied away from the CdRs because the alcohols seem across-the-board higher, but I'll see if I can find a 2011 to compare.
 
Ladies and gents, I be proud to announce the results of the tour of des Tours.

2011 Domaine des Tours Vin de Pays de Vaucluse 13,5%
Spectacular aroma, refined and complex. Alas, acidity is insufficient and sweetness a bit jammy. There’s also a smoked meat note that overwhelms.

2010 Domaine des Tours VdP Vaucluse 13,5%
Pretty aroma soy sauce and pencil shavings but not on the same level as the 2011. Otoh, it’s a little less jammy. Good balance, showing pepper and licorice notes.

2012 Domaine des Tours VdP de Vaucluse 13,5%
Another gorgeous aroma, lush red fruits and exotic spices/camphor. But, jammy sweetness is back and butt-whips the somewhat feeble acidity. Reminiscent of the 2010, but showing an even bigger discontinuity between the nasal and the buccal.

2014 Domaine des Tours VdP de Vaucluse 13,5%
Pretty aroma, as in the 2010, but less than the 2011 and 2012. Was bracing for some jam but, hallelujah, none came. Right now, this is showing fresher and more balanced than the other three, but without the aromatic fireworks.

Jonathan suggested that some of the higher cuvées might be less jammy. This seemed unlikely given their higher alcohol, but curiosity got the better of my high-abv aversion. Both were decanted for about three hours:

2011 Domaine des Tours Vacqueyras Réserve 15,0%
Another aromatic stunner, but not better than the (cheaper) 2011 Vaucluse, if memory serves. Cloves, licorice, blackberries, camphor. Elegant texture, with very light oak, something I didn’t notice in the Vaucluse. Most importantly, no jamminess; seems amazing for a 15 percenter. Good fixed acidity and good balance. There’s a rubber note that becomes increasingly prominent and an irritant. But one feels NOT the 15%.

2011 Domaine des Tours Côtes-du-Rhône Réserve 14,0%
Another killer nose (yawn), effectively indistinguishable from the other stunners. Attractive mouthfeel, with reasonable acidity for a southern wine. Has an unobtrusive smoked meat note. Quite elegant, also not jammy. Possibly the "best" of the lot, though the 2014 Vaucluse had the smallest discontinuity between nose and mouth.

All in all, it’s not often that one finds such an impressive set of aromatics. If there’s a complaint to be made it’s that the aromas set such a high standard that some level of letdown is inevitable when transitioning from vapor to liquid.
 
Do you have these at the domaine? Do they really have all those back years of the VDP for sale? Also, for how long did you decant or let breathe in the bottle?
 
All six bought at a French auction house in the last three months. The Vacqueyras and CdR were decanted for three hours. The Vaucluses were decanted for between one and two hours.
 
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