2015 Clisson

M

MLipton

Mark Lipton
I struggle to find a wine to serve with grilled King salmon. Chablis and most Muscadet are too lean and Jean is not fond of Chenin or Riesling (with certain pointed exceptions). I’m agnostic about Pinot Noir as a foil, finding it generally to just coincide with the food. So it was with pleasure that tonight I opened the 2015 Domaine de la Pepiere Clisson with a side of grilled Chinook. The richness of the extended lees aging combined with the ripeness of the year made for a near perfect food-wine experience. The Clisson proved to be a dead ringer for a quality Chablis but with just enough added richness to work well with the salmon. So glad I have more.

Mark Lipton
 
Not a match I would have thought of, but sounds like it worked.

My preferred match with Chinook these days is rose Champagne. Or even still rose. Or Ameztoi rose if it's summer and we're on the patio. I think you get the idea.
 
originally posted by Lee Short:
Not a match I would have thought of, but sounds like it worked.

My preferred match with Chinook these days is rose Champagne. Or even still rose. Or Ameztoi rose if it's summer and we're on the patio. I think you get the idea.
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Interesting. We never drink white wines with salmon. These days it is always red wine (but almost never pinot noir, though sometimes gamay); generally a basic bottling of Ribera Sacra Mencía or reds from the Canaries from either Envinate or Suertes del Marqués. Also good are either a Palhete (a mix of red and white grapes) or a lighter style Castelão from the Lisboa area. All are consumed at about 10 deg C.
 
To Lee's comment, I recall Levi wrote some time ago that rose is the best choice for salmon (my take away anyway). That stuck with me, and I have stuck to it with good results. I have yet to find a red match that I'm all that excited about.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Lee Short:
Not a match I would have thought of, but sounds like it worked.

My preferred match with Chinook these days is rose Champagne. Or even still rose. Or Ameztoi rose if it's summer and we're on the patio. I think you get the idea.
Click to expand...

Interesting. We never drink white wines with salmon. These days it is always red wine (but almost never pinot noir, though sometimes gamay); generally a basic bottling of Ribera Sacra Mencía or reds from the Canaries from either Envinate or Suertes del Marqués. Also good are either a Palhete (a mix of red and white grapes) or a lighter style Castelão from the Lisboa area. All are consumed at about 10 deg C.
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I'll have to give Mencia a shot. Gamay we tend to drink with fowl.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Lee Short:
Not a match I would have thought of, but sounds like it worked.

My preferred match with Chinook these days is rose Champagne. Or even still rose. Or Ameztoi rose if it's summer and we're on the patio. I think you get the idea.
Click to expand...

Interesting. We never drink white wines with salmon. These days it is always red wine (but almost never pinot noir, though sometimes gamay); generally a basic bottling of Ribera Sacra Mencía or reds from the Canaries from either Envinate or Suertes del Marqués. Also good are either a Palhete (a mix of red and white grapes) or a lighter style Castelão from the Lisboa area. All are consumed at about 10 deg C.
Click to expand...

I'll have to give Mencia a shot. Gamay we tend to drink with fowl.

Mark Lipton
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Maybe. I'm in the red wine and fish don't work crowd. No matter what I've tried, there is always something metallic to me (though I've not tried mencia). I think that Clisson is a wonderful choice for fish, even an orange hued one.
 
Did anyone consider pinot noir with salmon a thing until they started growing pinot in the PNW? I actually do it fairly often, just because if I had to drink white wine with fish every time I wouldn't end up eating much fish, but it sometimes clashes and never feels all that natural.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Did anyone consider pinot noir with salmon a thing until they started growing pinot in the PNW? I actually do it fairly often, just because if I had to drink white wine with fish every time I wouldn't end up eating much fish, but it sometimes clashes and never feels all that natural.
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I don't know the answer to your PNW question, but they do seem to think it is the right match in Portland (I don't). But I do agree on reds in general. But it all depends on the prep (I cook back loins of Salmon in the simmering oven of my Aga for 18 min with a tiny bit of olive oil, salt and pink pepper; that's it). Brun Ancien is excellent with this as well. But the light, elegant wines being made in the Canaries are perfect (at least for me).

The same wines work with swordfish and a few other meaty fish, but not most other fish.
 
JoAnne is a superb cook and an excellent judge of wine pairings. We frequently have (French and Domestic) Pinot Noirs with salmon, sword fish, and tuna...and enjoy what we consider to be the gracefulness of the dinner.

Maybe we're missing something. If so, ignorance is bliss, for us at least.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Did anyone consider pinot noir with salmon a thing until they started growing pinot in the PNW? I actually do it fairly often, just because if I had to drink white wine with fish every time I wouldn't end up eating much fish, but it sometimes clashes and never feels all that natural.
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Lighter nebbiolo can sometimes work with fishes.
 
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Did anyone consider pinot noir with salmon a thing until they started growing pinot in the PNW? I actually do it fairly often, just because if I had to drink white wine with fish every time I wouldn't end up eating much fish, but it sometimes clashes and never feels all that natural.
Click to expand...

Lighter nebbiolo can sometimes work with fishes.
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Problem is it rarely or almost never exists these days. Most have far too much tannin when young, including the great, new wave from Alto Piemonte.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Did anyone consider pinot noir with salmon a thing until they started growing pinot in the PNW? I actually do it fairly often, just because if I had to drink white wine with fish every time I wouldn't end up eating much fish, but it sometimes clashes and never feels all that natural.
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer to your PNW question, but they do seem to think it is the right match in Portland (I don't). But I do agree on reds in general. But it all depends on the prep (I cook back loins of Salmon in the simmering oven of my Aga for 18 min with a tiny bit of olive oil, salt and pink pepper; that's it). Brun Ancien is excellent with this as well. But the light, elegant wines being made in the Canaries are perfect (at least for me).

The same wines work with swordfish and a few other meaty fish, but not most other fish.
Click to expand...

the low temp cooking of salmon ( usually cure mine with salt, sugar, lemon zest) is an excellent way to cook king salmon. i don't tend to sauce mine but like a pat of ramp butter to finish it off.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
2015 ClissonI struggle to find a wine to serve with grilled King salmon. Chablis and most Muscadet are too lean and Jean is not fond of Chenin or Riesling (with certain pointed exceptions). I’m agnostic about Pinot Noir as a foil, finding it generally to just coincide with the food. So it was with pleasure that tonight I opened the 2015 Domaine de la Pepiere Clisson with a side of grilled Chinook. The richness of the extended lees aging combined with the ripeness of the year made for a near perfect food-wine experience. The Clisson proved to be a dead ringer for a quality Chablis but with just enough added richness to work well with the salmon. So glad I have more.

Mark Lipton
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BTW, you tagged this as a flawed bottle on CT. Might want to change that.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
The Clisson proved to be a dead ringer for a quality Chablis
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Just drank a bottle of 2015 Pepiere Gorges and the thing that came to mind upon the very first sip was premier cru Chablis. So concentrated and lemon salty, just a beautiful wine. Apparently the fruit is sourced from Bregeon, but I must admit that I enjoyed the Pepiere Gorges considerably more than a recent 2013 Bregeon Gorges.
 
I believe that Pepiere and Bregeon actually did an exchange of parcels: Gorges for Clisson (a few rows of vines or so, not their entire holdings).
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
I believe that Pepiere and Bregeon actually did an exchange of parcels: Gorges for Clisson (a few rows of vines or so, not their entire holdings).
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Juice. http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/8602/?all=true#126091
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That's interesting. Where did we get the information about juice v. parcels? I may have misunderstood the French, but I visited Pepiere a few weeks ago and I had understood Remi Branger to be telling me that they had exchanged parcels. Admittedly, my French is terrible, so I could have it wrong.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
I believe that Pepiere and Bregeon actually did an exchange of parcels: Gorges for Clisson (a few rows of vines or so, not their entire holdings).
Click to expand...
Juice. http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/8602/?all=true#126091
Click to expand...

That's interesting. Where did we get the information about juice v. parcels? I may have misunderstood the French, but I visited Pepiere a few weeks ago and I had understood Remi Branger to be telling me that they had exchanged parcels. Admittedly, my French is terrible, so I could have it wrong.
Click to expand...
In the other thread, up one or two.
 
Interesting intuitive leap, Mark, on the Clisson; very glad it worked out. Seldom would I expect a Muscadel to weigh in as less lean than a peer vintage Chablis, but the '15s are cited for their plumpness, so, well-played.

I went long-ish on the '14 Clisson Gorges but am planning to brood on them for many years yet, imagining their longevity will match that of the Bregeon bottlings (think 2004). I didn't realize the Pepiere-Bregeon grape swop went beyond 2014 - good to know.
 
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