Question for the public

C

Christian Miller (CMM)

Christian Miller
Well, for board members with more/wider tasting experience than me (I.E. a lot of you 😉) I opened a young, low-ox, clean 2014 Chehalem Mountains PN in 750ml; and I saved half of it in a sealed screwtop 375ml. I'm hoping to see if/how it opens up, either for current enjoyment or to gauge potential/development. How many days should I wait before I hit diminishing returns?
 
Christian, it would depend greatly on the wine. Well-made (read: having good balance, etc.) wines will do fine re-corked and stored in the refrigerator for several days.

. . . . Pete
 
Not knowing the wine, I'd say 3-4 days for a noticeable change.

By way of comparison, I've had wines by Fred Scherrer that were open for two weeks and were just fine.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Christian, it would depend greatly on the wine. Well-made (read: having good balance, etc.) wines will do fine re-corked and stored in the refrigerator for several days.
. . . . Pete
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That I know; I actually find young Riesling is usually better the next day, even left in a half full refrigerated bottle. But I'm wondering, if I left it at cool room temperature, in a filled half bottle, how long would it take for a balanced, cleanly made 2014 PN to open up or "pseudo-age"? And how long before it stops improving in such a manner, or oxidation/spoilage starts to outweigh the benefits?

Yeah, I know, the answer to most questions is usually "it depends." But even some rough rules of thumb or anecdotes would be of interest.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Christian, it would depend greatly on the wine. Well-made (read: having good balance, etc.) wines will do fine re-corked and stored in the refrigerator for several days.
. . . . Pete
Click to expand...
That I know; I actually find young Riesling is usually better the next day, even left in a half full refrigerated bottle. But I'm wondering, if I left it at cool room temperature, in a filled half bottle, how long would it take for a balanced, cleanly made 2014 PN to open up or "pseudo-age"? And how long before it stops improving in such a manner, or oxidation/spoilage starts to outweigh the benefits?

Yeah, I know, the answer to most questions is usually "it depends." But even some rough rules of thumb or anecdotes would be of interest.
Click to expand...

I’ve come to the conclusion there are no rules of thumb on this. My experiences with all types of wines has been all over the map. From surprisingly fell apart on day 2 to “I can’t believe how well this last glass in the btl drinks after sitting on the counter for 3 weeks”. And everything in between.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Christian, it would depend greatly on the wine. Well-made (read: having good balance, etc.) wines will do fine re-corked and stored in the refrigerator for several days.
. . . . Pete
Click to expand...
That I know; I actually find young Riesling is usually better the next day, even left in a half full refrigerated bottle. But I'm wondering, if I left it at cool room temperature, in a filled half bottle, how long would it take for a balanced, cleanly made 2014 PN to open up or "pseudo-age"? And how long before it stops improving in such a manner, or oxidation/spoilage starts to outweigh the benefits?

Yeah, I know, the answer to most questions is usually "it depends." But even some rough rules of thumb or anecdotes would be of interest.
Click to expand...

I’ve come to the conclusion there are no rules of thumb on this. My experiences with all types of wines has been all over the map. From surprisingly fell apart on day 2 to “I can’t believe how well this last glass in the btl drinks after sitting on the counter for 3 weeks”. And everything in between.
Click to expand...

My experience has been similar to Jayson’s. I’ve had a couple of California Cabernets in the past five years from which I gently filled and refrigerated a 375 ml screwcap bottle that have changed minimally after more than a month. One was a late 2000s EMH Black Cat and the other was a 1995 Laurel Glen Counterpoint that was at least 20 years old. I’ve had similar wines that declined after less than a week. I have yet to be able to determine any factors that consistently correlate with a wine’s survival or decline.
 
Unfiltered, biodynamic, no additions (other than sulfur), reductive cellar practices, no pumps: it will last a week or more! I mean, without any more protection than an air-tight seal at room temp. Re data set of thousands.

There must be someone in Oregon doing all that? Or no? I'd like to know.
 
originally posted by Putnam Weekley:
Unfiltered, biodynamic, no additions (other than sulfur), reductive cellar practices, no pumps: it will last a week or more! I mean, without any more protection than an air-tight seal at room temp. Re data set of thousands.

There must be someone in Oregon doing all that? Or no? I'd like to know.
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I'm sure there are quite a few in Oregon doing this, although I assume "reductive cellar practices" is a continuum rather than binary. Zero pumps could be difficult too, depending on your winery setup. I'm not going to spend time looking up their practices, but Cowhorn, Brooks, Cooper Mountain, Bergstrom, King Estate (some bottlings), Maysara, Montinore, Ponzi, Solena, Winderlea are all candidates.

But my question was really more about wine development than preservation. I.E. does substantial aeration (by pouring into a 375ml), followed by modest oxidation (via sitting in a topped-up screwcapped 375ml) offer a useful preview of what a wine's aromatics will be 3-5 years in the future? If so, what type of wine or under what circumstances?
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
But my question was really more about wine development than preservation.
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Maybe I I conflatedI do mean they taste better, with more fresh detail, spice where there was husk, and less boggy.
I used to hold Russ Raney (ex Evesham Wood ) as the riskiest/most rewarding in this regard, but can't remember making any of his wines open longer than a day for any gain.
 
originally posted by BrÊzème:
Chad Stock?
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I'm really curious to see what he coaxes out of David Hill Estate now that he's making wine there. I used to distribute their wines about a decade ago and always thought they underperformed given the very old (for Oregon) and historic vineyards.
 
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