Which cheeses w/red wine(s)?

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Jayson Cohen: Pete, I don’t understand the last course pairing. I would think those cheeses ... would do a great disservice to those fancy red Burgs.

Jason etal, following up, two questions...

1) which specific cheeses are recommended to go with red wines in general? and

2) which specific cheeses are recommended to go with a 10-year old Chateauneuf du Pape?

Thanks.

. . . . . . Pete

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Which cheeses w/red wine(s)?

originally posted by Jayson Cohen: Pete, I don’t understand the last course pairing. I would think those cheeses ... would do a great disservice to those fancy red Burgs.

1) which specific cheeses are recommended to go with red wines in general?

. . . . . . Pete

Big question. But in a nutshell, think aged sheep or cow (Parmigiano Reggiano or an old Gouda are good examples). Nothing soft, washed-rind or blue-veined. And goat generally works better with whites, except perhaps when very hard.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by mark e:
Big question. But in a nutshell, think aged sheep or cow (Parmigiano Reggiano or an old Gouda are good examples). Nothing soft, washed-rind or blue-veined. And goat generally works better with whites, except perhaps when very hard.

A red wine works well with cheeses that offer umami; mere acidity or fat content or aging isn't enough. And I do like port with blues. But, most of the time, whites are a better match with cheese generally.

So, Pete, can you do a 10-year-old Ch9 blanc?

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by mark e:
Big question. But in a nutshell, think aged sheep or cow (Parmigiano Reggiano or an old Gouda are good examples). Nothing soft, washed-rind or blue-veined. And goat generally works better with whites, except perhaps when very hard.

A red wine works well with cheeses that offer umami; mere acidity or fat content or aging isn't enough. And I do like port with blues. But, most of the time, whites are a better match with cheese generally.

So, Pete, can you do a 10-year-old Ch9 blanc?

I more or less agree with the above, although with many cheeses I actually prefer beer or cider. I wonder how much these matches vary by person. Some knowledgeable wine people like red Burgundy with aged Epoisses, which sounds like Ali vs. Foreman in the mouth to me.

 

[Jayson Cohen]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Peter Creasey:
Which cheeses w/red wine(s)?

originally posted by Jayson Cohen: Pete, I don’t understand the last course pairing. I would think those cheeses ... would do a great disservice to those fancy red Burgs.

1) which specific cheeses are recommended to go with red wines in general?

. . . . . . Pete

Big question. But in a nutshell, think aged sheep or cow (Parmigiano Reggiano or an old Gouda are good examples). Nothing soft, washed-rind or blue-veined. And goat generally works better with whites, except perhaps when very hard.

I like the Parmigiano Reggiano call. It’s the only cheese I might recommend with red wine without having proof a particular red wine actually works with a particular cheese.

 

[MLipton]

Neal’s Yard Cheddars are another cheese that I’ve found to well with lively red wines, but that’s also in the umami/Parmigiano Reggiano fold. Totally on board with the whites usually work better theme, too.

Mark Lipton

 

[MLipton]

And, Pete, a 10-year old CdP goes so well with game birds and red meats, why try to shoehorn cheese in? If you’re trying to please a vegetarian, there’s plenty of legume-cheese concoctions that’d do nicely.

Mark Lipton

 

[Karen Goetz]

...really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

 

[Peter Creasey]

Mark, fair question. The main course is already tentatively on tap for being served with a Barolo and Mazoyeres-Chambertin. And, despite the fact that cheese goes well with white wine, I prefer in this case to have the white wines at the front of the dinner and then the reds; and then a CNdP with the cheeses. And then whatever with the dessert.

. . . . Pete

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Having the cheese course after dinner, usually with red wine, is very much the French custom. I avoid creamy and mild cheeses as a choice. But as long as it has some sharpness, it will work. Although I have never found it here, I do like chevre sec, which works much like a Parmesan, but really and goat, cow or ewe with some bite to it will work OK for me.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

Right, I should have added that to (what I see as) the short list of good red pairings.

I've tried the red burg / epoisses thing; hit or miss.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?

Yes, but they are both better with Chavignol (not rouge).

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

Right, I should have added that to (what I see as) the short list of good red pairings.

I've tried the red burg / epoisses thing; hit or miss.

Oddly (perhaps) enough I once had Époisses with a white Burg (Lamy Saint Aubin) and they really clicked.

 

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

Right, I should have added that to (what I see as) the short list of good red pairings.

I've tried the red burg / epoisses thing; hit or miss.

Oddly (perhaps) enough I once had Époisses with a white Burg (Lamy Saint Aubin) and they really clicked.

Not odd at all. IMO white Burgundy is a much better match with Epoisses than red.

One of the few cheeses I really like with reds is the US cheese Landaff.

 

[Peter Creasey]

So far...

> Parmigiano Reggiano (too hard?)
> Old Gouda
> Aged Epoisses (controversial)
> Neal's Yard Cheddar
> Goat's Milk Cheeses
> Chevre Sec
> Goat/Cow/Ewe with bite
> Landaff

. . . . . Pete

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

Mont d'Or with aged Saint-Amour.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Parmigiano for me. I often nibble a chunk with a glass of red in the evening, with a book and some music.

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

This is new to me, and I'll try to have something like this on hand next time I open a red wine from the Loire. What's an example of a decent, semi-aged goats' milk cheese?

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Parmigiano for me. I often nibble a chunk with a glass of red in the evening, with a book and some music.

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

This is new to me, and I'll try to have something like this on hand next time I open a red wine from the Loire. What's an example of a decent, semi-aged goats' milk cheese?

crottin de chavignol.

 

[robert ames]

[No message]

 

[Karen Goetz]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Parmigiano for me. I often nibble a chunk with a glass of red in the evening, with a book and some music.

originally posted by Karen Goetz:
OMG......really, have you never tried fresh goat's milk cheeses and semi-aged goat's milk cheeses with Chinon or Bourgueil?!?
Do not dismiss without trying, Oh yee of little faith.

This is new to me, and I'll try to have something like this on hand next time I open a red wine from the Loire. What's an example of a decent, semi-aged goats' milk cheese?

crottin de chavignol.

What robert said. I'm most familiar with chevre from the Loire Valley with Chinon, Bourgueil and Anjou reds. Also, I need to clarify that I mean by "aged" is chevre that has had affinage, so that its structure sags gently near the outer perimeter against its crust of cinders or natural mold. The center usually retains some firm, tender chalkiness or fine density depending on how much affinage it has received. I don't mean "aged" as in hard cow milk cheeses.
I love Chinon/Bourgueil with Saint-Maure de Touraine (a log-shaped chevre) whether it's young or older. Chabichou du Poitou if you can find it; the flavors as well as the slight friability of texture with age.
Young wines or well-aged ones have been my preference with these fromages.
Its delightful.
...And there are certainly chevres from this continent which are lovely and would make good partners with Loire cab francs.