Thoughts on Aging Chabils

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Ian Fitzsimmons

Ian Fitzsimmons
A long time ago, I stumbled over a deep-yellow, superannuated bottle of Malandes 1er cru, which I'd assumed would be oxidized, but opened anyway in the spirit of scientific inquiry. It turned out to have a weird sour-mash flavor that was strangely delicious. I was puzzled by this experience for years, and then read Hugh Johnson write somewhere that this is a (desirable) thing that happens with 1er cru Chablis, if you hold onto it long enough.

My recent bottles of 2008 Louis Michel Montee de Tonnerre seem to be inching into this sour-mash status, bit-by-bit, and a 2008 Michel Butteaux VV I opened last year was strikingly delicious, albeit in a different direction - showing a kind of lacy, filigreed quality you look for more in a Mosel Sonnenuhr than a VV Chablis.

Reflecting on these experiences, I just bought an assortment of Michel 2018 Chablis and noticed the drinking windows shown in Cellar Tracker for the Butteaux VV and Montee, which extend to 2050 and 2055, respectively, and strike me as excessive.

I know, I know: CT is not exactly peer-reviewed for quality, but its drinking windows usually come from professional reviewers (in this instance, I suspect they are from Gilman, who reviews Michel's wines, and regularly assigns comparable windows to cru Beaujolais).

Anyway, what think you about drinking and holding 1er & GC Chablis?
 
My recent samplings of Wm Fevre Chablis from 2013 and 2014 have worked well. I haven't noticed any transition to what you and Johnson are referring to. Probably these are not old enough if they have the sort of potential you describe.

. . . . . Pete
 
I don't cellar any white Burgundy that long that wasn't made in the M“con by Gauthier Thévenet (my only bottles older than 2014).

I generally just buy Picq Chablis and that works for me (although I have a couple bottles of 2015 Dauvissat Preuses that I got on sale that won't last long) but I don't generally cellar them long term. Maybe I'll let a few 2017 Vosgros sleep to see what happens but as soon as they taste good, they're generally in the rotation.
 
not sure about the sour mash thing, but i figure that premier cru chablis doesn't perform its magic until a good 7 years after the vintage, and a few more years for grand cru.

and especially with louis michel, as his wines are all satinless-only in their elevage, so are even tighter upon release than those that use old wood.

that being said, 2018 was a particularly blousy vintage for chablis (read neal martin), so i'd expect it to be a vintage with diminished staying power compared to say 2017.
 
I have held Dauvissat "Forets" for years. The chardonnay-ish part of the flavor will get that rounded, leesy-Champagne/White Burgundy/false-sweet taste; the seashells remain.

I think of 'sour mash' as a spoilage descriptor, usually for old barolo.
 
I pretty much stopped aging Chablis with premox. Which is sad, 'cause old Chablis is fucking awesome when it's on.

I am pretty sad most producers still oak their premier/GCs somewhat in light of this. That oak can integrate with age...but if you drink at release it's there big time. I wish they'd all just use old oak for everything.
 
The other reality is that I just don't cellar like I used to when we had a passive cellar. I hate mechanically cooled cellars, they just really bother me.
 
originally posted by BJ:
The other reality is that I just don't cellar like I used to when we had a passive cellar. I hate mechanically cooled cellars, they just really bother me.
Click to expand...

BJ, where did you have a passive cellar? Curious.
 
We have a passive-aggressive cellar at my place, FWIW. It pouts when I fail to put new bottles into it, but then, when I do, it hides them from me in obscure crannies for sheer spite.

This week I fed it six bottles of Thivin Zacharie; I’ll probably never see them again.
 
originally posted by BJ:
I pretty much stopped aging Chablis with premox. Which is sad, 'cause old Chablis is fucking awesome when it's on.

I am pretty sad most producers still oak their premier/GCs somewhat in light of this. That oak can integrate with age...but if you drink at release it's there big time. I wish they'd all just use old oak for everything.
Click to expand...

hmmm. . .with louis michel, billaud simon, bernard defaix, fevre domaine, i have never had a prem ox bottle. and that's up to 10 years old.
 
My passive cellar was a unheated basement in our last house. It worked great.

Maybe I was over worried about premox. I did have some various premox Burgundy/Chablis but it was a while ago and I couldn't tell you what it was specifically.
 
I age Chablis. Except for a couple bottles though, it’s all 2002 and younger. I should open a bottle of ‘02 Michel Montee de Tonnerre. It was a strange wine young and needed time.
 
I got burned by premox and stopped buying Chablis altogether for a decade. Starting with 08 I began dipping my feet back into the water. As per fb, I age Tribut and Michel because of sulfur issues. I only buy 1er now as that hits my sweet spot. A recently opened 17 Servin Montee was gloriously life affirming. Jeans issues with aged white wines mean that I’ll open mine when they’re young.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by BJ:
I pretty much stopped aging Chablis with premox. Which is sad, 'cause old Chablis is fucking awesome when it's on.

I am pretty sad most producers still oak their premier/GCs somewhat in light of this. That oak can integrate with age...but if you drink at release it's there big time. I wish they'd all just use old oak for everything.
Click to expand...

hmmm. . .with louis michel, billaud simon, bernard defaix, fevre domaine, i have never had a prem ox bottle. and that's up to 10 years old.
Click to expand...

All of those have had reports of premox but none are domaines I ever cellared. I stopped a long time ago, so I was bitten by Dauvissat and Boudin and really just priced out of Ravenneau (Dauvissat now as well). Picq always worked out for me but maybe I also didn't expect them to age as long so just drank them.

Back in the mid-90s (when you could do such things) I used to hit Chablis every summer and taste with pretty much everyone and then raid the cellars at the Hostellerie des Clos to drink older vintages of Dauvissat and Raveneau. They were some of the best experiences I've ever had with white wine (NB, I was a graduate student at the time and 10-12 year old Raveneau Clos could be had for under $100 US, often well under).
 
About the only Chablis I buy or have bought for the last 10 years is Louis Michel.
And even before that, Michel was the vast majority.
My experience is much like robert’s; 7 or more years on Premier Cru, somewhat longer for Grand Cru.
I’ve not noticed a sour mash character with aging. More an amplitude of flavor and texture, a softening of structure and a bit more emphasis on minerality. And to use VLM’s concept, a different “shape” to the wine.
But now that you (et al) mention it, I’ll look for the mash notes you speak of.
Best, jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
About the only Chablis I buy or have bought for the last 10 years is Louis Michel.
And even before that, Michel was the vast majority.
My experience is much like robert’s; 7 or more years on Premier Cru, somewhat longer for Grand Cru.
I’ve not noticed a sour mash character with aging. More an amplitude of flavor and texture, a softening of structure and a bit more emphasis on minerality. And to use VLM’s concept, a different “shape” to the wine.
But now that you (et al) mention it, I’ll look for the mash notes you speak of.
Best, jim
Click to expand...

I think maybe that's a tweener stage for Michel. They were (and probably still are) all aged in stainless steel tanks; however, they do eventually show creaminess with age (as was demonstrated directly during a long ago visit). So maybe that sour mash is the beginning of that later stage of development?
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by BJ:
I pretty much stopped aging Chablis with premox. Which is sad, 'cause old Chablis is fucking awesome when it's on.

I am pretty sad most producers still oak their premier/GCs somewhat in light of this. That oak can integrate with age...but if you drink at release it's there big time. I wish they'd all just use old oak for everything.
Click to expand...

hmmm. . .with louis michel, billaud simon, bernard defaix, fevre domaine, i have never had a prem ox bottle. and that's up to 10 years old.
Click to expand...

All of those have had reports of premox but none are domaines I ever cellared. I stopped a long time ago, so I was bitten by Dauvissat and Boudin and really just priced out of Ravenneau (Dauvissat now as well). Picq always worked out for me but maybe I also didn't expect them to age as long so just drank them.

Back in the mid-90s (when you could do such things) I used to hit Chablis every summer and taste with pretty much everyone and then raid the cellars at the Hostellerie des Clos to drink older vintages of Dauvissat and Raveneau. They were some of the best experiences I've ever had with white wine (NB, I was a graduate student at the time and 10-12 year old Raveneau Clos could be had for under $100 US, often well under).
Click to expand...

Lucky you did that then. 'Cause now, well, who can afford them. What is odd here in Norway is that though Dauvissat is pretty much unavailable in the retail (Vinmonopolet) market, restaurants have them. The 1er crus I like best, Fôret and Vaillons, are about $110/120 so once in a while . . . But for everyday drinking, we buy a lot of Duplessis (which never gets any love here): petit chablis mostly, but also the 1er crus which cost considerably less than the US.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by BJ:
I pretty much stopped aging Chablis with premox. Which is sad, 'cause old Chablis is fucking awesome when it's on.

I am pretty sad most producers still oak their premier/GCs somewhat in light of this. That oak can integrate with age...but if you drink at release it's there big time. I wish they'd all just use old oak for everything.
Click to expand...

hmmm. . .with louis michel, billaud simon, bernard defaix, fevre domaine, i have never had a prem ox bottle. and that's up to 10 years old.
Click to expand...

All of those have had reports of premox but none are domaines I ever cellared. I stopped a long time ago, so I was bitten by Dauvissat and Boudin and really just priced out of Ravenneau (Dauvissat now as well). Picq always worked out for me but maybe I also didn't expect them to age as long so just drank them.

Back in the mid-90s (when you could do such things) I used to hit Chablis every summer and taste with pretty much everyone and then raid the cellars at the Hostellerie des Clos to drink older vintages of Dauvissat and Raveneau. They were some of the best experiences I've ever had with white wine (NB, I was a graduate student at the time and 10-12 year old Raveneau Clos could be had for under $100 US, often well under).
Click to expand...

God, that sounds good.

I've been there, once. I should be able to rattle off what Chablis we had from memory, but can't. I do remember we had a 94 de Montille I think Volnay 1er, and it was super on.
 
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