Thoughts on Aging Chabils

originally posted by Josh Fontaine:
All this seems very mainstream typical "good" Chablis.

What about Beru, Pico, Enclos ?
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Josh,
I’d like to learn about them - what are your impressions/thoughts?
Best, jim
 
originally posted by Josh Fontaine:
All this seems very mainstream typical "good" Chablis.

What about Beru, Pico, Enclos ?
Click to expand...

For Chablis, we almost only drink Pico and De Moor, and find that they don't need as much time as some of the others mentioned here, possibly because of the lower SO2 levels.
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

I've had very good results with Dauvissat. I'm looking around for a substitute only because the pricing has really become intolerable.
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I recommend Laurent Tribut for a Dauvissat-like approach. They're cousins, but that of course doesn't necessarily translate to the glass. In this instance, I think it does. Tribut doesn't have the same terroirs as Dauvissat, but still makes very nice wines.
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Agree. I like Tribut quite a bit (thanks to fb for introducing me to them). But there isn't much resemblance to Dauvissat. The wines seem austere for a lot longer and remain much more reserved. Perhaps - in part - that is the SO2 level others have referred to.
 
I liked/loved Tribut when I was introduced to his wines but prices here in the states have risen steadily and his wines are now out of reach.
Best, jim
 
I am going to elicit a big chuckle here, but I just bought my semi-regular case of village Chablis from Trader Joe's. $14.99 and produced by JM Brocard, single vineyard of middle aged vines, indigenous yeasts. Shows some breeding and pride. For the price, really hard to beat in the Cheap Crap category.
 
originally posted by BJ:
I am going to elicit a big chuckle here, but I just bought my semi-regular case of village Chablis from Trader Joe's. $14.99 and produced by JM Brocard, single vineyard of middle aged vines, indigenous yeasts. Shows some breeding and pride. For the price, really hard to beat in the Cheap Crap category.
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of Brocard's own bottlings, and I had the TJ's version in the previous vintage. I found it a little thinner and sort of "dampened down", but it does deliver an authentic Chablis experience at a very fair price. For TJ shoppers: this year's Tavel selection was really good. They also had an interesting, slightly rustic old school Ribera del Duero - Condado de Oriza (Pago del Rey) 2015, not sure if that is still in stock.
 
I experimented with TJ’s Brocard-looking St. Claire Chablis several times over the course of the year, as stock progressed through vintages from - IIRC - 2017 through 2019. The 2017 was solid quality for the local $16/bottle pricing, but the 2018 notably less so. Haven’t tried the 19 yet.

This is okay, entry-level Chablis, but, for Chablis, I’d rather drink Picq at $20. If I want a cheap white Burgundy with dinner, there’s always Jadot Macon for $12.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by BJ:
I am going to elicit a big chuckle here, but I just bought my semi-regular case of village Chablis from Trader Joe's. $14.99 and produced by JM Brocard, single vineyard of middle aged vines, indigenous yeasts. Shows some breeding and pride. For the price, really hard to beat in the Cheap Crap category.
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of Brocard's own bottlings, and I had the TJ's version in the previous vintage. I found it a little thinner and sort of "dampened down", but it does deliver an authentic Chablis experience at a very fair price. For TJ shoppers: this year's Tavel selection was really good. They also had an interesting, slightly rustic old school Ribera del Duero - Condado de Oriza (Pago del Rey) 2015, not sure if that is still in stock.
Click to expand...

I’ll check out the Tavel. Favorites?
 
Last vintage of the TJ Brocard (it is Brocard btw) was the '17, so sounds like not as good recently.

If I could get Picq in this town for $20, I'd not be shopping at TJs.

I will have to check out the Jadot. Even Macon these days seems to be the $20s.
 
Last vintage of the TJ Brocard (it is Brocard btw) was the '17, so sounds like not as good recently.

If I could get Picq in this town for $20, I'd not be shopping at TJs. I can't find any Chablis less than $25 here.

I will have to check out the Jadot. Even Macon these days seems to be in the $20s.
 
I recently through a number of 2007 and 2008 Fevre. 100% (8 bottles maybe) of the 2007 Vaulorent and Montee de Tonnerre were really excellent, everything you could want in a Chablis. These were all bottled with Diam 5. Even better were the 2008 Fevre Montee de Tonnerre, a standout vintage for them (zero premox).

Different story for the Grand Cru bottled with traditional corks. All but one of the GC (Bouguerots, Preuses, Clos, ...) were premox, and even the soi-disant good one was advanced.

Such evidence really throws this "luck of the premox" out the window--not luck (or chance) at all.

Still another level up was a 2007 Dauvissat Clos a year ago this summer. What a gorgeous wine, but still 4-5 years out from maturity. Just starting to show its white flower and honeyed side, but not very far along...
 
Of Fevre, I recall liking the Vaulorent very much. But I stopped buying Fevre several years before these vintages. Scary about the natural corks, especially for the GCs. I'd imagine these would warrant the most reliable closures.
 
originally posted by BJ:
Last vintage of the TJ Brocard (it is Brocard btw) was the '17, so sounds like not as good recently.

If I could get Picq in this town for $20, I'd not be shopping at TJs.

I will have to check out the Jadot. Even Macon these days seems to be the $20s.
Click to expand...

The '18 is to be had for about $20 from a couple of stores on the right coast. Maybe Greg at Envoyer could begin bringing Picq in at reasonable prices next to the Pacific.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Of Fevre, I recall liking the Vaulorent very much. But I stopped buying Fevre several years before these vintages. Scary about the natural corks, especially for the GCs. I'd imagine these would warrant the most reliable closures.
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The W. Fevre GCs all got Diam starting in 2010.

I’m sort of scared to open mine that are older than that although the one I did, a 2007 Bouguerots under cork, was pristine and stunning a few years ago.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Of Fevre, I recall liking the Vaulorent very much. But I stopped buying Fevre several years before these vintages. Scary about the natural corks, especially for the GCs. I'd imagine these would warrant the most reliable closures.
Click to expand...
The Vaulorent went to Diam in 2007, hence the consistent set of good bottles there...
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by BJ:
Last vintage of the TJ Brocard (it is Brocard btw) was the '17, so sounds like not as good recently.

If I could get Picq in this town for $20, I'd not be shopping at TJs.

I will have to check out the Jadot. Even Macon these days seems to be the $20s.
Click to expand...

The '18 is to be had for about $20 from a couple of stores on the right coast. Maybe Greg at Envoyer could begin bringing Picq in at reasonable prices next to the Pacific.
Click to expand...

Picq has a national importer that does business in CA. I like the Picq's, I wouldn't want to disrupt their business by buying grey market and I'm willing to pay a little extra for provenance and jobs*. Wines cost what they cost. At the level of Picq no one is gouging it's the price of a business that buys and markets the wines every year and builds that market for the producer so they can pay their bills.

That being said, I've got no issue with Greg and bought wine from him when I lived in Southern CA.

* I have friends that work for Vintage 59, the importer.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by BJ:
I am going to elicit a big chuckle here, but I just bought my semi-regular case of village Chablis from Trader Joe's. $14.99 and produced by JM Brocard, single vineyard of middle aged vines, indigenous yeasts. Shows some breeding and pride. For the price, really hard to beat in the Cheap Crap category.
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of Brocard's own bottlings, and I had the TJ's version in the previous vintage. I found it a little thinner and sort of "dampened down", but it does deliver an authentic Chablis experience at a very fair price. For TJ shoppers: this year's Tavel selection was really good. They also had an interesting, slightly rustic old school Ribera del Duero - Condado de Oriza (Pago del Rey) 2015, not sure if that is still in stock.
Click to expand...

I’ll check out the Tavel. Favorites?
Click to expand...

There was only one: Tavel "Reserve des Chastelles" from "Vignobles et Co, negociant-eleveur". A direct import and/or TJ's exclusive I'd guess. $8.99 at the time. Interesting blend of 58% Grenache, 25% Cinsault, rest is carignan, syrah, grenache blanc.
 
originally posted by VLM:

Picq has a national importer that does business in CA. I like the Picq's, I wouldn't want to disrupt their business by buying grey market and I'm willing to pay a little extra for provenance and jobs*. Wines cost what they cost. At the level of Picq no one is gouging it's the price of a business that buys and markets the wines every year and builds that market for the producer so they can pay their bills.

That being said, I've got no issue with Greg and bought wine from him when I lived in Southern CA.

* I have friends that work for Vintage 59, the importer.
Click to expand...

You have a sophisticated understanding of market mechanisms and dynamics that I'm essentially blind to. I didn't mean to suggest anything improper; Vintage 59 has a nice reputation and I have no quarrel with them. I was responding spontaneously to a quick glance on Winesearcher at the CA retailers offering Picq.

Is $20 pricing in the east the product of gray market trade?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by VLM:

Picq has a national importer that does business in CA. I like the Picq's, I wouldn't want to disrupt their business by buying grey market and I'm willing to pay a little extra for provenance and jobs*. Wines cost what they cost. At the level of Picq no one is gouging it's the price of a business that buys and markets the wines every year and builds that market for the producer so they can pay their bills.

That being said, I've got no issue with Greg and bought wine from him when I lived in Southern CA.

* I have friends that work for Vintage 59, the importer.
Click to expand...

You have a sophisticated understanding of market mechanisms and dynamics that I'm essentially blind to. I didn't mean to suggest anything improper; Vintage 59 has a nice reputation and I have no quarrel with them. I was responding spontaneously to a quick glance on Winesearcher at the CA retailers offering Picq.

Is $20 pricing in the east the product of gray market trade?
Click to expand...

The AC Chablis would be $25-6 here front line retail. Discounters selling it at $20 are either taking a slimmer margin or may have received a quantity discount or both. With 2019 on the way, some distributors may be discounting the 2018.
 
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