Thoughts on Aging Chabils

originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Matt Latuchie:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

I've had very good results with Dauvissat. I'm looking around for a substitute only because the pricing has really become intolerable.
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I recommend Laurent Tribut for a Dauvissat-like approach. They're cousins, but that of course doesn't necessarily translate to the glass. In this instance, I think it does. Tribut doesn't have the same terroirs as Dauvissat, but still makes very nice wines.
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Agree Jim. With Dauvissat prices as they are, Tribut is a great way to scratch that itch.

on the debate about longevity, I've had good luck over the years. Lucked into a 1981 Dauvissat Sechet bottle a couple years ago and was floored by how regal it was.
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Matt, since you’re weighing in here: did you see the comment about Servin and oxidation? Any experience of your own? (I recall you opening a Servin in Chicago years ago)

Mark Lipton
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Mark - some data from my CT notes:

1. Total Servin Notes Written: 32
2. Total Number of Oxidized Wines: 5
2a. 15.6% oxidation rate
2b. 60% of the premoxed wines were from 2007
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by VLM:

Picq has a national importer that does business in CA. I like the Picq's, I wouldn't want to disrupt their business by buying grey market and I'm willing to pay a little extra for provenance and jobs*. Wines cost what they cost. At the level of Picq no one is gouging it's the price of a business that buys and markets the wines every year and builds that market for the producer so they can pay their bills.

That being said, I've got no issue with Greg and bought wine from him when I lived in Southern CA.

* I have friends that work for Vintage 59, the importer.
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You have a sophisticated understanding of market mechanisms and dynamics that I'm essentially blind to. I didn't mean to suggest anything improper; Vintage 59 has a nice reputation and I have no quarrel with them. I was responding spontaneously to a quick glance on Winesearcher at the CA retailers offering Picq.

Is $20 pricing in the east the product of gray market trade?
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The AC Chablis would be $25-6 here front line retail. Discounters selling it at $20 are either taking a slimmer margin or may have received a quantity discount or both. With 2019 on the way, some distributors may be discounting the 2018.
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Opened a bottle of 2017 Picq Chablis this week, purchased from a NY shop. It's really a great bottle of villages Chablis, with a pure, typical Chablis flavor I often don't find in 1ers - albeit maybe less depth and (naturally) terroir definition. I can't think of a better bottle to break out with friends when you want to drink something really good without going très fancy.

I could use a few more bottles in reserve and am pouty because I didn't find any Desssus when I bought this, though I did score a few bottles of Vaucoupin.

I wish I liked the Vosgros better; something in the finish hits me wrong.

Has anyone tasted the 2018s chez Picq?
 
Opened a bottle of 2017 Picq Chablis this week, purchased from a NY shop. It's really a great bottle of villages Chablis, with a pure, typical Chablis flavor I often don't find in 1ers - albeit maybe less depth and (naturally) terroir definition. I can't think of a better bottle to break out with friends when you want to drink something really good without going très fancy.

I could use a few more bottles in reserve and am pouty because I didn't find any Desssus when I bought this, though I did score a. few bottles of Vaucoupin.

I wish I liked the Vosgros better; something in the finish hits me wrong.

Has anyone tasted the 2018s chez Picq?
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2017 was a banging great year for chablis. the 2017 picq a/c chablis was yes indeed of premier cru quality. as was servin pargues, for instance. finding other producers whose village wines showing premier cru quality in 2017 was, in my experience, common.

2018 was just plain much riper. read neal martin in vinous for a thorough discussion of this reality, and of how great 2017 is for chablis.
 
Oswaldo - yes, my bottle was the regular. Vintage59's portfolio comment on this wine exactly describes what I experienced: "... invariably chock full of flinty seashell essence, making it a quintessential Chablis."

I don't subscribe to vinous, Robert, but found Martin's article on the 2016 and 2017 vintages online - interesting. I also didn't know Martin writes for Vinous.

I'd be interested in what people here are finding in their sampling 2018 Chablis. Gilman, for one, seems to slightly prefer Louis Michel's wines in 2018, in the upper echelons, at least. I also observe that Picq bottled a Vaudécorse in 2018, which, per Vintaget59, they do only "... if the year is productive and good."

Does Martin give notes in specific producers and wines in his article on 2018, or assess the vintage only in general terms?
 
I don't subscribe to vinous, Robert, but found Martin's article on the 2016 and 2017 vintages online - interesting. I also didn't know Martin writes for Vinous.

Does Martin give notes in specific producers and wines in his article on 2018, or assess the vintage only in general terms?
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neal moved to vinous fairly recently. in my opinion, a real coup. neal is my favourite writer for burgundy, bordeaux (
 
Thanks. Thoughts on Martin vs. Gilman?

Apropos the original question of this thread, I found a relevant comment on another board, saying that Daniel-Etienne Defaix doesn't release their Chablis until they're ready, and are just releasing their 2005s and '06s 1ers now.

Nebenbei: What's the correct protocol for citing comments from other boards: quote with attribution, presuming 'fair use;' paraphrase (as I've done here) without, or something else?

Noted in passing: the thread on that board, titled "Chablis Ageing Question" [sic] kicked off on November 9, two and a half weeks after this one started. Coincidence?
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Any word on 2019 Chablis?
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yes. regarding the latest neal martin chablis report i just referred to--i erroneously stated that it covered 2017 and 2018. it actually covers 2018 and 2019.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Any word on 2019 Chablis?
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yes. regarding the latest neal martin chablis report i just referred to--i erroneously stated that it covered 2017 and 2018. it actually covers 2018 and 2019.
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I saw his overall comments on 2019 but I haven’t seen what he’s said about particular producers or gotten a good sense of whether (speaking in generalities) we are talking about 2014/2017 level tension or just an improvement on the softer 2018s. From what I gather in terms of balance, the vintage overall is somewhere in between.

Also do folks have preferences for any Louis Michel PCs other than Montée de Tonnerre?
 
originally posted by robert ames:
the only producer where he finds his 2018s equal his to 2017s is samuel billaud--half of the split when billaud-simon was bought by faiveley. samuel billaud is the half that is not now owned by faiveley.
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I've enjoyed the 2017 S Billaud Chablis and 1er cru Vaillons quite a bit. Haven't tried 2018 yet (but I will). I don't buy them that often but probably should as they are about $5 less per bottle than Duplessis for both AC and 1er cru. Yet I have the impression that they might have a bit more SO2.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
greetings ian--i don't read or know gilman--where does one find him?
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He does his own publication "View from the Cellar," I think. You can probably find an old edition online if you poke around. Alternatively, find one of his posts on, say, Berserkers, and send him a personal message, asking for a sample old edition. He's quite cordial - or, at least, he was when I did this several years ago.

He interviewed with Levi Dalton on Dalton's podcast some time ago, as well, if you're interested in hearing him on tape. I thought his commentary on red Burgundy was especially interesting - including how youthful 'green' flavors can blossom nicely into complexity as aging occurs.

I generally like his reviews; he's prone to unusually high scores and expansive drinking windows for some wines - notably Beaujolais and Chablis - which give me pause sometimes. But these are wines I tend to be optimistic about, so I'm willing to roll with his assessments until they're proven wrong.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
originally posted by robert ames:
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Any word on 2019 Chablis?
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yes. regarding the latest neal martin chablis report i just referred to--i erroneously stated that it covered 2017 and 2018. it actually covers 2018 and 2019.
Click to expand...

I saw his overall comments on 2019 but I haven’t seen what he’s said about particular producers or gotten a good sense of whether (speaking in generalities) we are talking about 2014/2017 level tension or just an improvement on the softer 2018s. From what I gather in terms of balance, the vintage overall is somewhere in between.

Also do folks have preferences for any Louis Michel PCs other than Montée de Tonnerre?
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I went through six bottles of his 2008 Butteaux VV. It was strikingly delicious young, then just okay between, say, 5-9 years old. I found the final, overlooked bottle in my cellar last year, and it was remarkable - see the note below. In fact, this bottle is one reason I started this thread.

Since then, I've bought his Butteaux VV along-side the Montée whenever I've seen it at reasonable pricing. Note there is a non-VV Butteaux, which I've never tried. I read somewhere that the difference between the VV and non-VV lies more in the patch of soil each cuvée is planted in, more than the age of the vines, but who knows?

"The wine had lost most of its weight and showed as a super-refined, light, almost ethereal expression of Chablis tang and tingle. Really a wonderful experience."
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by robert ames:
the only producer where he finds his 2018s equal his to 2017s is samuel billaud--half of the split when billaud-simon was bought by faiveley. samuel billaud is the half that is not now owned by faiveley.
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I've enjoyed the 2017 S Billaud Chablis and 1er cru Vaillons quite a bit. Haven't tried 2018 yet (but I will). I don't buy them that often but probably should as they are about $5 less per bottle than Duplessis for both AC and 1er cru. Yet I have the impression that they might have a bit more SO2.
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I bought some 14s from Samuel Billaud. MDT and Sechet. They need to be sampled. My plan had been to do so with others this year. But COVID changed things up.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:


Also do folks have preferences for any Louis Michel PCs other than Montée de Tonnerre?
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MdT is my go to PC - I’ve not had many others measure up.

Not PC’s but I’ve had very good luck with the village Chablis and the screwcap is nice.
Also, Vaudesir can be exceptional with sufficient age.

Best, jim
 
I agree about MdT. Perhaps only the occasional Vaulorent can measure up amongst PCs, but on the sturdier side against the more steely MdT.
 
Every time I see the misspelled title of this post my mind jumps from "Chabils" to "Gerbils." HELP, someone!
The appellations have actual names.
 
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