Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Yes, though not the Hiroshima type.
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winereactionsarethenewtrend and a jay miller reference
- Thread starter Mark Anisman
- Start date
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by Mark Anisman:
i get a kick when folks say this wine is great with “sushi". that’s like saying this wine is great with meat.
My favorite meat pairing was on the back label of a CdR, which recommended the wine be served with "viande rouge grillée"...right next to their Certified Vegan logo.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am not mark e but I think the concern is for the sweet sauce, not the fat or the roast or any of the other wonderful things about kabayaki.
No sweet sauce with Northern Rhones? What about pork with prunes, duck with roast black cherries, sauces with sundried tomatoes, bulgogi, Peking duck with hoisin and spring onion in those little crepes...? They all sound pretty good to me.
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am not mark e but I think the concern is for the sweet sauce, not the fat or the roast or any of the other wonderful things about kabayaki.
No sweet sauce with Northern Rhones? What about pork with prunes, duck with roast black cherries, sauces with sundried tomatoes, bulgogi, Peking duck with hoisin and spring onion in those little crepes...? They all sound pretty good to me.
Perhaps, but none of those you cited is particularly sweet, particularly when cooked with the meat. Hoisin doesn't work for me, but the problem isn't just sweetness, but how the wine tastes with fatty, earthy fish such unagi: more tannic and somewhat metallic.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Do not setup a straw man, please. I did not say "No sweet sauce"; what I said was that sweetness is a concern.originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
No sweet sauce with Northern Rhones? What about pork with prunes, duck with roast black cherries, sauces with sundried tomatoes, bulgogi, Peking duck with hoisin and spring onion in those little crepes...? They all sound pretty good to me.
As mark e said, many of these dishes are not particularly sweet, and when they are, I drink with the less-saucy bites.
YMMV. Please drink your Verset with your Reese's Overload Cake and enjoy.
Mark Anisman
Mark Anisman
"but how the wine tastes with fatty, earthy fish such unagi: more tannic and somewhat metallic."
farmed eel is indeed fatty. wild caught eel much less so. night and day.
with wild caught eel, i have not had a syrah that turns metallic or have the tannic character accentuated. and not just me, but others forced to have this combination love the wine served and do not enter a caveat like "i wish the wine was less tannic and metallic". indeed, refills are requested. of both.
how people taste is both nature and nurture (better yet, experience rather than nurture). i love high acid wines. others do not. what i like can differ from others. perhaps that is the same for you with syrah and unagi regardless of unagi origin.
i agree that a big commercial outfits offering of fatty farmed eel has problems with both being fatty and sweet. and i do not prefer this product regardless of what i drink with it. perhaps this is why the unagi we buy is easily twice as expensive.
mark e : have you tried this combination with wild eel? if not, then your conclusion only holds for farmed eel.
farmed eel is indeed fatty. wild caught eel much less so. night and day.
with wild caught eel, i have not had a syrah that turns metallic or have the tannic character accentuated. and not just me, but others forced to have this combination love the wine served and do not enter a caveat like "i wish the wine was less tannic and metallic". indeed, refills are requested. of both.
how people taste is both nature and nurture (better yet, experience rather than nurture). i love high acid wines. others do not. what i like can differ from others. perhaps that is the same for you with syrah and unagi regardless of unagi origin.
i agree that a big commercial outfits offering of fatty farmed eel has problems with both being fatty and sweet. and i do not prefer this product regardless of what i drink with it. perhaps this is why the unagi we buy is easily twice as expensive.
mark e : have you tried this combination with wild eel? if not, then your conclusion only holds for farmed eel.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am not mark e but I think the concern is for the sweet sauce, not the fat or the roast or any of the other wonderful things about kabayaki.
No sweet sauce with Northern Rhones? What about pork with prunes, duck with roast black cherries, sauces with sundried tomatoes, bulgogi, Peking duck with hoisin and spring onion in those little crepes...? They all sound pretty good to me.
Perhaps, but none of those you cited is particularly sweet, particularly when cooked with the meat. Hoisin doesn't work for me, but the problem isn't just sweetness, but how the wine tastes with fatty, earthy fish such unagi: more tannic and somewhat metallic.
Hear you on that, I have experienced some weird interactions of fatty fish with a variety of wines, usually in a bad way. If this fish is smoked, even worse. And I rarely encounter combinations that actually make the wine and food taste bad.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Do not setup a straw man, please. I did not say "No sweet sauce"; what I said was that sweetness is a concern.originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
No sweet sauce with Northern Rhones? What about pork with prunes, duck with roast black cherries, sauces with sundried tomatoes, bulgogi, Peking duck with hoisin and spring onion in those little crepes...? They all sound pretty good to me.
As mark e said, many of these dishes are not particularly sweet, and when they are, I drink with the less-saucy bites.
YMMV. Please drink your Verset with your Reese's Overload Cake and enjoy.
Haha, I had to look up Reese's Overload Cake, holy shit what a monstrosity. (And I actually like Reeses PBCs) Was this the 70s or 80s answer to jello salads?
Wine match? When in doubt on dessert, everyone seems to say "Banyuls". How about just drizzling PX over the whole thing?
Karen Goetz
Karen Goetz
Just the facts, mister, in case folks aren't aware.
Stocks of wild Japanese and European eels are in serious jeopardy and have been for some years.
As well as heavily depleted wild populations there is a lot of commercial gleaning of dwindling remaining live stocks to be captured and raised in "farms." With subsequent loss during transport.
One estimate of recruitment (survival) of larval eels is 1%. That's ONE percent.
"In 2014, the Japanese eel was added to the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Red List of Threatened Species."
"The European eel (Anguilla anguilla) stock is severely depleted. According to estimates from the International Council for Exploration of the Seas (ICES), until 2011, the recruitment level of glass eels (the number of baby eel produced each year) was only 1 % of what it was before the 1980s."
Also,
Stocks of wild Japanese and European eels are in serious jeopardy and have been for some years.
As well as heavily depleted wild populations there is a lot of commercial gleaning of dwindling remaining live stocks to be captured and raised in "farms." With subsequent loss during transport.
One estimate of recruitment (survival) of larval eels is 1%. That's ONE percent.
"In 2014, the Japanese eel was added to the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Red List of Threatened Species."
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www.aquaculturealliance.org
"The European eel (Anguilla anguilla) stock is severely depleted. According to estimates from the International Council for Exploration of the Seas (ICES), until 2011, the recruitment level of glass eels (the number of baby eel produced each year) was only 1 % of what it was before the 1980s."
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ec.europa.eu
Also,
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www.sustainableeelgroup.org
Mark Anisman
Mark Anisman
my bad?
what i can buy for unagi is less fatty than the mass market products from non - Japanese companies.
maybe not wild, but clearly leaner and different. and from Japan
that is my point.
pinot noir from Jayer and DRC are very different. enough that pairing them with different foods makes sense. but both are pinot noir
which unagi are you having with syrah?
what i can buy for unagi is less fatty than the mass market products from non - Japanese companies.
maybe not wild, but clearly leaner and different. and from Japan
that is my point.
pinot noir from Jayer and DRC are very different. enough that pairing them with different foods makes sense. but both are pinot noir
which unagi are you having with syrah?
Karen Goetz
Karen Goetz
originally posted by Mark Anisman:
my bad?
what i can buy for unagi is less fatty than the mass market products from non - Japanese companies.
maybe not wild, but clearly leaner and different. and from Japan
that is my point.
pinot noir from Jayer and DRC are very different. enough that pairing them with different foods makes sense. but both are pinot noir
which unagi are you having with syrah?
I've been fighting the unagi/eels urge for years and the last time I had it was 6 years ago: a splendid dish in a small inland hamlet in Croatia. Neretvanski brudet is frog legs and eels cut up, braised and stewed. Fantastic.
Didn't have my Verset in my backpack at the time.
Mark, maybe head to San Francisco Bay and start poke poling your own monkeyface eels.
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
FYI endangeredJust the facts, mister, in case folks aren't aware.
Stocks of wild Japanese and European eels are in serious jeopardy and have been for some years.
As well as heavily depleted wild populations there is a lot of commercial gleaning of dwindling remaining live stocks to be captured and raised in "farms." With subsequent loss during transport.
One estimate of recruitment (survival) of larval eels is 1%. That's ONE percent.
"In 2014, the Japanese eel was added to the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s Red List of Threatened Species."
Loading…
www.aquaculturealliance.org
"The European eel (Anguilla anguilla) stock is severely depleted. According to estimates from the International Council for Exploration of the Seas (ICES), until 2011, the recruitment level of glass eels (the number of baby eel produced each year) was only 1 % of what it was before the 1980s."
Loading…
ec.europa.eu
Also,
Loading…
www.sustainableeelgroup.org
You are correct. Everyone should be checking the species they eat on the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch web site. This regards eel:
Loading…
www.seafoodwatch.org
Karen Goetz
Karen Goetz
originally posted by Brad Kane:
Mark, maybe head to San Francisco Bay and start poke poling your own monkeyface eels.
Since I'm in Oakland I got all excited too, thinking there might be an eel species that isn't endangered and edible, BUT
"One thing the monkeyface is concealing is that it isn’t a true eel (from the article you quote)." So it is not the eel sold in markets/restaurants and it doesn't experience the same threatened status.
The reason that eels are endangered is destruction of necessary habitats for their complicated multi-stage life cycle. Ocean, estuarine and freshwater habitats all necessary at different stages. You can just imagine.
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teara.govt.nz
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www.google.com
And, what mark e said. Thanks.