Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
This is a perfect description, actually, of the 2012 Bourg sec I just wrote about, during its first few years.
Impressions October 2020, Part I
- Thread starter VLM
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This is a perfect description, actually, of the 2012 Bourg sec I just wrote about, during its first few years.
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
It wasn’t a universal statement on the secs but I‘ve gotten shrill sometimes in the past — tough vintages like 01-10-11-12 come to mind, but then I’ve had older secs from like 61, 62 that were like this and needed a couple days of air to open up.
On the other side is a vintage like 2018, which came off as loose and flabby. Drinking 2018s this summer and then 2019 at Nathan’s was a stark contrast.
I know these are all generalizations but I think we are all concerned about how global warming is affecting the benchmark wines we love in and around Vouvray.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Jayson, do you feel like you can make any general comparisons between Huet's Vouvrays and Chidaine's?
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
I don’t know if I can in any coherent fashion here. Part of the challenge is which Chidaine when. IIRC, he started expanding into Vouvray with Clos Baudoin, which had to be converted to better viticulture, but he has now replanted. If I look back, I could try to reconstruct, but I don’t recall a consistent set of other bottlings out of Vouvray. Then there’s the fact Huet has old vines on some of the best sites converted to organic viticulture (well, biodynamic) 30 years ago whereas Chidaine picked up what he could in Vouvray. And frankly, and maybe most importantly, I don’t have a good sense of Chidaine’s Vouvrays as compared to his Montlouis wines. His Vouvrays have been more of one-offs for me whereas I think I have a strong sense of the Montlouis wines.
Which is my long winded way of saying, whatever I might say isn’t worth much.
I will say I have enjoyed Chidaine’s wines immensely. There is what I’d call a playfulness to them that I really enjoy. On the other side for me might be Foreau, which I like but can sometimes be more powerful and baroque. Huet somewhere in the middle. One person’s opinion. Brad likes to chime in when we talk Chenin and especially if he disagrees with me, so this thread may get him riled up.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
I'm very familiar with 1994 Foreau sec (kid's birth year, a bunch laid away). Definitely shrill on purchase, but have matured into complex, mellow (not tart) wines. They taste like they are past peak, but far from dead. Oddly, they seemed to quickly vault from young/tart/austere to mature and mellow, without much time spent in the middle.
I agree with what you said.
On a serious note, I don't at all find a "playfulness" in Chidaine's wines, whatever that means, but agree with you about one offs from him. To this date, the '08 Le Bouchet remains the single best wine from the estate that I've had. I'm not the biggest fan and don't believe his wines age particularly well. I've disagreed with Pascaline on this view.
To sort of answer Ian's query of general comparisons to Chidaine, let me just say that I've consistently found Huet, Foreau and Pinon to consistently be better across their respective lineups.
As far as "shrillness" in secs, I would tend to call Foreau's secs traditionally austere. Philippe aims for much lower sugar levels than they do at Huet, who's sugar levels in their secs sometimes approach traditionally demi-sec levels, though they seem to have pulled back in recent vintages, though still have more residual than Foreau.