CWD: What did you drink last night (or whenever)?

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by robert ames:
re: chave--i'm wondering if one change was dropping the inclusion of stems. i have a friend that used to buy chave but quit when they became in his words, "a fruit bomb".

jll says the chave hermitage is mostly destemmed. i feel certain that was not always the case--and i could be wrong about that.

This was interesting enough to google and I found this:

"We kept coming back to an interesting conversation regarding stem inclusion in the red. Jean-Louis mentioned that he has "never had a great Cornas without the stem and never had a great Hermitage with the stem." That said, before the winery was rich, they couldn't always destem as they didn't have the equipment, so some vintages (like the 1979 we had here) had quite a lot of stem inclusion. He did say that they sometimes tune certain vintages with a bit of stems, but generally they go without these days. He says that in Hermitage the stems often take over the wine, just as oak in some wines can overpower the wine. I liked this analogy... as he mentions, some wines can handle 100% new oak no problem, just as some wines can handle 100% whole cluster and some cannot integrate it well. Hermitage, he believes, does not integrate the whole cluster as well as Cornas."

Loading…

www.cellartracker.com

So it seems that as they became more succesful they destemmed more.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Larry Stein:
Maybe it depends on which importer’s ‘94? Langdon Shiverick is different than Kermit Lynch. IIRC, Lynch was able to select barrels. I’ve had both and Lynch’s was excellent. It has been a number of years since I’ve tried them. Just a couple of weeks ago, a friend brought ‘87 to a party. It was really, really good!

quite possible, Larry! All mine (94/95/96) were Shiverick.

In the 80s, the place was of course infamous for bottling from different "barrels" (they are not really barrels, they are gigantic vats - guessing 3000L, does anyone know for sure? - in which the wines spend their second year, after spending the first in barrique separated by climat), and they made a point of telling you that each vat had a different proportion from various sites, likely allowing a particular site dominate the character in each vat. The final blend, according to the tour guide who suspiciously looked like Gerard, would be a victor among many possible blends involving all the vats (think Krug blending exercise except without the 30 journalists in the room), with the remainder (unless the vats were to be used in equal parts, which almost never happened in a good vintage) sold off. Disorderlies know of at least one famous occasions when some was sold off; in fact, some even own the wine. On the other hand, if you haven't tasted three different versions of each of 78, 85, or 88, you haven't been paying attention. It is reasonable to assume that, back then, "sold off" could simply mean going to a different market or importer.

That practice was supposed to have disappeared with the introduction of Cuvee Cathelin, but the very nature of this thread may suggest otherwise. These are some amazing sites, with more than one alpha-site. Do the math.

 

[robert ames]

chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

 

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by robert ames:
chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

I'm with your friend (and not with Jean Louis).

 

[Jay Miller]

2019 Sun break Maire Paule Pinot Noir Open Claim Vineyard Willamette Valley 14.1%

Light, pleasant, cranberry scented nose. More cranberry on the palate, mouth watering acidity. Maybe not the complex PN I've ever had but entirely yummy and food friendly which, as it happens, is exactly what I want with dinner.

 

[Peter Creasey]

Following up on my posting upthread, I decided to pull a more recent vintage of the cited selection -- Clos du Mont-Olivet La Cuvee du Papet CNdP '15. It started off a bit rough then almost immediately smoothed out with a lush roundness into a wonderful pairing with sauteed calf's liver, fried onion rings, crispy broccoli salad.

. . . . . Pete

 

[VLM]

originally posted by robert ames:
chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

We don't talk about Faurie in public although since Kermit picked this off the carcass of RC the prices have more or less caught up in the US.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by robert ames:
chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

We don't talk about Faurie in public although since Kermit picked this off the carcass of RC the prices have more or less caught up in the US.

Sshhh! #fightclub

Mark Lipton

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by robert ames:
chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

We don't talk about Faurie in public although since Kermit picked this off the carcass of RC the prices have more or less caught up in the US.

well, the 2017 white capsule faurie hermitage was recently retailing at $230/btl, so if you're comparing it to chave, a bargain, but that's a good chunk higher than jamet or clape, if you want to talk overall rhone syrah. on the flip side, allemand cornas is now in the $330 range. a year or so ago.

 

[Tristan Welles]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by robert ames:
chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

We don't talk about Faurie in public although since Kermit picked this off the carcass of RC the prices have more or less caught up in the US.

well, the 2017 white capsule faurie hermitage was recently retailing at $230/btl, so if you're comparing it to chave, a bargain, but that's a good chunk higher than jamet or clape, if you want to talk overall rhone syrah. on the flip side, allemand cornas is now in the $330 range. a year or so ago.

you are missing the point -- that wine WAS selling for less than $100 and widely available. Not anymore, stateside.

Lynch is generally regarded as an important educator for Americans when it comes to European wine. Could be; but those of us who knew how to taste have always paid the price.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by robert ames:
chave may believe that hermitage can only be made well without stems, and so that is true for him, but bernard faurie uses stems in his various hermtage bottlings, and my friend who quit buying chave loves(!!) bernard faurie.

We don't talk about Faurie in public although since Kermit picked this off the carcass of RC the prices have more or less caught up in the US.

well, the 2017 white capsule faurie hermitage was recently retailing at $230/btl,...

Yikes. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by robert ames:

well, the 2017 white capsule faurie hermitage was recently retailing at $230/btl, so if you're comparing it to chave, a bargain, but that's a good chunk higher than jamet or clape, if you want to talk overall rhone syrah. on the flip side, allemand cornas is now in the $330 range. a year or so ago.

That's flat-out insane pricing. I bought the '13 white capsule for $59.99 a bottle back in '16. Of course, I see that Dom Jamet Cote-Rotie now retails for $185 a bottle at Flatiron, so I suppose that's just the status quo now.

Mark Lipton

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
wonder if Brézeme might have some thoughts on who might provide what you're looking for?

originally posted by Brézème:
Based in which village?
There is no Moulin à vent village. The cru is shared by...

I love how you can just say "Brézème" and shortly thereafter Eric shows up to explain all. It's like shining the bat signal in Gotham City.

 

[mlawton]

I've opened 2 bottles of 2001 Faurie Hermitage purchased at the Marche and hand-carried home. Both were completely resolved, no tannin to be found. Surprising for such a young wine. I recall he sold 3 bottlings at the Marche (2 lieux-dits bottled seperately and a blend). Unfortunately I can't recall which one I bought and it's not indicated anywhere I can find.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by mlawton:
I've opened 2 bottles of 2001 Faurie Hermitage purchased at the Marche and hand-carried home. Both were completely resolved, no tannin to be found. Surprising for such a young wine. I recall he sold 3 bottlings at the Marche (2 lieux-dits bottled seperately and a blend). Unfortunately I can't recall which one I bought and it's not indicated anywhere I can find.

Vineyards are designated by the capsule color
Gréffieux/Bessards: Cream capsule
Bessards/Méal: Gold capsule
Méal: Gold capsule with “M”
Bessards: Red capsule
Greffieux/Bessards/Méal: Gold capsule with unique lot number

 

[Jeff Grossman]

When I bought at the Marche, I think I asked his daughter to indicate the vineyard in pencil on the label.

 

[mlawton]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by mlawton:
I've opened 2 bottles of 2001 Faurie Hermitage purchased at the Marche and hand-carried home. Both were completely resolved, no tannin to be found. Surprising for such a young wine. I recall he sold 3 bottlings at the Marche (2 lieux-dits bottled seperately and a blend). Unfortunately I can't recall which one I bought and it's not indicated anywhere I can find.

Vineyards are designated by the capsule color
Gréffieux/Bessards: Cream capsule
Bessards/Méal: Gold capsule
Méal: Gold capsule with “M”
Bessards: Red capsule
Greffieux/Bessards/Méal: Gold capsule with unique lot number

Capsules are black with French tax stamp.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by mlawton:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by mlawton:
I've opened 2 bottles of 2001 Faurie Hermitage purchased at the Marche and hand-carried home. Both were completely resolved, no tannin to be found. Surprising for such a young wine. I recall he sold 3 bottlings at the Marche (2 lieux-dits bottled seperately and a blend). Unfortunately I can't recall which one I bought and it's not indicated anywhere I can find.

Vineyards are designated by the capsule color
Gréffieux/Bessards: Cream capsule
Bessards/Méal: Gold capsule
Méal: Gold capsule with “M”
Bessards: Red capsule
Greffieux/Bessards/Méal: Gold capsule with unique lot number

Capsules are black with French tax stamp.

well there you are, on the horns of a dilemma.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by mlawton:
I've opened 2 bottles of 2001 Faurie Hermitage purchased at the Marche and hand-carried home. Both were completely resolved, no tannin to be found. Surprising for such a young wine. I recall he sold 3 bottlings at the Marche (2 lieux-dits bottled seperately and a blend). Unfortunately I can't recall which one I bought and it's not indicated anywhere I can find.

I've opened 1 bottle from that same Marché that I got from John Sprow and it was exactly as you describe. Fully resolved, but didn't seem like it was falling apart. FWIW, it has the old label, a red capsule, and French tax stamp. John indicated that it was the assemblage.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

2018 La Torre Rosso di Montalcino: Speaks of Montalcino as a rosso should, in a more immediate and accessible way. I haven't drunk much Rosso di Montalcino, figuring that the better Chianti estates provide greater value at the price level (about $32ish for this wine). But this bottle provides as much joy and interest as a very good Chianti at this stage of the aging curve. Prompted me to cellar a couple of 2016 La Torre Brunellos.