CWD: What did you drink last night (or whenever)?

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by MLipton:
Of course, I'm still waiting on several '07s, mostly from Chandon de Briailles, so WTF do I know?

bressandes is jumping out of the glass, but ile des vergelesses is like a young high acid loire red that you want to monitor for three days after decanting. counterintuitive? maybe not

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by MLipton:
Of course, I'm still waiting on several '07s, mostly from Chandon de Briailles, so WTF do I know?

bressandes is jumping out of the glass, but ile des vergelesses is like a young high acid loire red that you want to monitor for three days after decanting. counterintuitive? maybe not

Yes, the 07 Corton wines from Chandon de Briailles have been drinking pretty well for a couple years now.

 

[Marc D]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by MLipton:
With a simple dinner of roast chicken and stir-fried veggies I opened a 2010 Pavelot Savigny-les-Beaune which was punching way above its weight. Silken texture, rich red fruit and earthy sous-bois flavors and floral overtones on the nose. For a village-level wine it displayed surprising depth and persistence. It has yet to pick up much in the way of tertiary character, but as appealing as it is now I would be hard pressed to wait many more years on it.

Mark Lipton

just yesterday a friend and i were discussing the unpredictability in opening 2010 reds burgs
the range is from glorious complex fruit explosions to what the fuck were you thinking pulling this cork you moron, and it's nothing to do with ultimate quality or even village vs 1er vs GC
some of us who have put on a little extra weight over the years will tell you it's the winemaking vs refreshing lack thereof
so it's on a case by case basis for me, which is to say notes such as above are much appreciated

That's most interesting. I'm just starting to broach my '10s, with all those 1ers still in subterranean slumber. Curiously (perhaps) my experience with opening '10s is better than my experience opening '08s. Of course, I'm still waiting on several '07s, mostly from Chandon de Briailles, so WTF do I know?

Mark Lipton

A recent bottle of 2010 Stephane Magnien Chambolle Les Sentiers was one of the most profoundly closed wines I've experienced. Even on night 2 only giving up a smidgen of fruit (and dark blue plummy fruit at that).

Belated condolences regarding your mother in law Mark. We are driving across the Cascades today to see my mother in law, who will be 90 next December.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Marc D:

A recent bottle of 2010 Stephane Magnien Chambolle Les Sentiers was one of the most profoundly closed wines I've experienced. Even on night 2 only giving up a smidgen of fruit (and dark blue plummy fruit at that).

I rest my case (see what I did there?). It was on these very interwebz just a couple of years ago that Maureen convinced me to overcome my reluctance to pull a bottle of 2010 Stephane Magnien Morey AOC. The wine was singing in all sorts of registers.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

Hot shit! I've got both the Ode and Tablas in the bat cave. Will have to open them when the weather decides to exceed freezing on a regular basis. FWIW, I've long been a fan of bag-in-a-box. There are some very good wines in France sold in that format, mostly by caves cooperatives IME.

Mark Lipton

 

[Florida Jim]

2018 Dirty & Rowdy, Mourvèdre Evangelho Vineyard.
While a wine I have always enjoyed, it has always shown tight, good but tight. Last night may be the first time it has shown as a complete wine, albeit a young one. The purity now, framed by garrigue, mineral and fresh herbs, and the depth are finally fully available. And the fruit is typical for young Mourvèdre.
13.5% abv, excellent length and precise balance.
No rush but compelling now.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

this sounds like something Q-anon might make up.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

this sounds like something Q-anon might make up.

Yeah, the exploding part. Anyway, I have experimented with quite a few BiB wines and then the same wine under screwcap. There is a radical difference with the BiB wine generally having higher detectible-by-nose free SO2 levels and being much less expressive aromatically until the bag is more than half consumed. Because BiB is huge in Norway, I asked about this, and the SO2 issue was mentioned because of the membrane's permeability. I now avoid them and buy the bottles even if I have to pay a bit more.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

this sounds like something Q-anon might make up.

Yeah, the exploding part. Anyway, I have experimented with quite a few BiB wines and then the same wine under screwcap. There is a radical difference with the BiB wine generally having higher detectible-by-nose free SO2 levels and being much less expressive aromatically until the bag is more than half consumed. Because BiB is huge in Norway, I asked about this, and the SO2 issue was mentioned because of the membrane's permeability. I now avoid them and buy the bottles even if I have to pay a bit more.

That’s most interesting. You’d think that they could find a formulation for the bag that wasn’t overly permeable to SO2. After all, they have to be reasonably impermeable to oxygen, which is a smaller gas. I wonder if the polymer the use reacts with SO2 and thus consumes it.

Mark Lipton

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

this sounds like something Q-anon might make up.

Yeah, the exploding part. Anyway, I have experimented with quite a few BiB wines and then the same wine under screwcap. There is a radical difference with the BiB wine generally having higher detectible-by-nose free SO2 levels and being much less expressive aromatically until the bag is more than half consumed. Because BiB is huge in Norway, I asked about this, and the SO2 issue was mentioned because of the membrane's permeability. I now avoid them and buy the bottles even if I have to pay a bit more.

That’s most interesting. You’d think that they could find a formulation for the bag that wasn’t overly permeable to SO2. After all, they have to be reasonably impermeable to oxygen, which is a smaller gas. I wonder if the polymer the use reacts with SO2 and thus consumes it.

Mark Lipton

Tablas Creek and Bedrock both did trials before moving to commercial release, and these are pretty detail oriented folks. Perhaps there's been an improvement in the BIB product.

 

[Brian C]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

this sounds like something Q-anon might make up.

Yeah, the exploding part. Anyway, I have experimented with quite a few BiB wines and then the same wine under screwcap. There is a radical difference with the BiB wine generally having higher detectible-by-nose free SO2 levels and being much less expressive aromatically until the bag is more than half consumed. Because BiB is huge in Norway, I asked about this, and the SO2 issue was mentioned because of the membrane's permeability. I now avoid them and buy the bottles even if I have to pay a bit more.

That’s most interesting. You’d think that they could find a formulation for the bag that wasn’t overly permeable to SO2. After all, they have to be reasonably impermeable to oxygen, which is a smaller gas. I wonder if the polymer the use reacts with SO2 and thus consumes it.

Mark Lipton

Tablas Creek and Bedrock both did trials before moving to commercial release, and these are pretty detail oriented folks. Perhaps there's been an improvement in the BIB product.

Perhaps Eric will weigh in?

 

[Marc D]

originally posted by Brian C:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
2022 Bedrock Ode to Lulu Rose: I get than many disorderlies may not care to hear about a California rose. That's fine. This is one of the best, and a consistent pleasure year after year. The 2022 is a little heavier than usual, but wears it well. It wouldn't surprise me if this vintage improves in bottle for another five years or so. But right now it's really fun. Like you often want a rose to be. This is also available on a limited basis in a 3L bag-in-box. Tablas Creek pioneered that last year out here, and it's a great idea. I'd age a few bottles, but for anything to be drunk this year, there's not really any good reason not to go bag-in-box.

The only "good" reason I've heard about to avoid BiB is the higher SO2 required to keep the wine from exploding through the internal plastic liner during shipping. Don't know the details, so any questions must be addressed to itb's in the know.

this sounds like something Q-anon might make up.

Yeah, the exploding part. Anyway, I have experimented with quite a few BiB wines and then the same wine under screwcap. There is a radical difference with the BiB wine generally having higher detectible-by-nose free SO2 levels and being much less expressive aromatically until the bag is more than half consumed. Because BiB is huge in Norway, I asked about this, and the SO2 issue was mentioned because of the membrane's permeability. I now avoid them and buy the bottles even if I have to pay a bit more.

That’s most interesting. You’d think that they could find a formulation for the bag that wasn’t overly permeable to SO2. After all, they have to be reasonably impermeable to oxygen, which is a smaller gas. I wonder if the polymer the use reacts with SO2 and thus consumes it.

Mark Lipton

Tablas Creek and Bedrock both did trials before moving to commercial release, and these are pretty detail oriented folks. Perhaps there's been an improvement in the BIB product.

Perhaps Eric will weigh in?

Have you tried the 1.5L Chat Fou bag in box?
I saw OWD had it recently.

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by Marc D:Have you tried the 1.5L Chat Fou bag in box? I saw OWD had it recently.

Now that is surprising!

. . . . . Pete

 

[Jim Hanlon]

2012 Pearl Morissette Cab Franc Cuvee Madeline: Disclosure, I was a small owner in Selection Massale back when this was imported. Really holding up well. Clean and well defined fruit. Nice balance and complexity. Missing some of the earth you'd expect in the Loire. But a really nice Cab Franc.

2018 Ambyth Mourvedre: From biodynamic, dry-farmed grapes in Paso Robles. Vinified without additions in clay. Pretty clean wine, with the fruit marred a little to my palate by fermentation-type characteristics. Very drinkable, and might even seem boring to the hard core natural wine crowd. I enjoyed it though. Didn't hold up to day 2.

2020 Guillemot Bourgogne: Man was this fruity. I haven't tasted much 2020 Burgundy, but if this is indicative, it will be a popular vintage, but not necessarily a personal favorite. Showed some oak too, which was a little weird. Not what I was expecting.

2021 Lady of the Sunshine Pinot Noir: Biodynamically farmed vineyard in Edna Valley. 100% whole cluster and that really defines the wine at this young age. Pretty light bodied, and perhaps missing a bit of acid for aging. Drinks well now, and I'd view this as a short term wine. Really enjoyable in that idiom, though I wonder what the wine would have been like with a little less whole cluster.

2021 Dunites Moy Mell: Purchased after Eden recommended the winery on another thread. A weird blend from SLO: blanc de Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, and Albarino. This had a lot of acid. For me, maybe too much. Tasted a bit like base wine for Champagne, although that may have been power of suggestion based on the pressed off Pinot Noir. I kinda liked it, but a wine to drink by the glass, not the bottle.

 

[Yixin]

The 'bottling' requirements for BIB are quite different IME; you've got to prepare the wine differently (SO2 is only part of it; sterile filtration, dissolved CO2, and so on). Cans are actually easier to switch to but require a huge run to be cost-effective. Both, in my considered opinion, are significantly better in terms of overall footprint (carbon, for sure, but also landfill and energy usage).

It'd be nice if there was straightforward convergence between maximising taste and minimising footprint, but reality isn't nice.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Yixin:
It'd be nice if there was straightforward convergence between maximising taste and minimising footprint, but reality isn't nice.

How about maximizing footprint?

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Yixin:
The 'bottling' requirements for BIB are quite different IME; you've got to prepare the wine differently (SO2 is only part of it; sterile filtration, dissolved CO2, and so on).

Well, that does explain my perception of the same cuvée tasting so different. Most of my experience is with German wines that have a bit of RS, though I did notice that reds, although there is less difference between BiB and bottle, tasted a bit stripped.

 

[Brézème]

The film used for the Bagnums I use for the Chat Fou, has nothing to do with those used for the BIBs.
The wine is exactly the same than in the bottles. The price also BTW.
An opened bagnum remains fresh for at least a month, and it is almost impossible to get air into it.
Unopened ones are still good after 3 years.
Perfect for everyday wine, IMO