I have had Burgundian bottles occasionally and more or less randomly.The magnums of Louis Boillot Morgon Les Rouchaux 2014 I bought on your recommendation are currently offering an incredible mature Volnay experience(not quite, of course, but you know what I mean;it seems to me very untypical of Beaujolais) though must I think be finished soon for optimum enjoyment-I think I'll open the last tomorrow.
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TN: Older Beaujolais II (Jun 25, 2022)
- Thread starter Jeff Grossman
- Start date
I have had Burgundian bottles occasionally and more or less randomly.The magnums of Louis Boillot Morgon Les Rouchaux 2014 I bought on your recommendation are currently offering an incredible mature Volnay experience(not quite, of course, but you know what I mean;it seems to me very untypical of Beaujolais) though must I think be finished soon for optimum enjoyment-I think I'll open the last tomorrow.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I've found that Beaujolais, like Muscadet, changes with aging, but really doesn't improve from the fresh, exuberant wines one can find (now only in the right vintages, due to global warming) when young. As for wines that Pinotte, I can't say that any of the older vintages I've tried (back to 1961) reminds me of Burgundy, even though they had remarkable longevity and attractiveness.
I disagree, with no particular authority, on both counts: IMHO, cru Beaujolais and Muscadet wines, from good vignerons, transition to much more interesting incarnations with long aging - 10 years and up.
I've never had a Beaujolais that tastes like a pinot-based Burgundy (and wouldn't want to, especially) but have had repeatedly experienced of them developing into a distinctly different gestalt - relatively perky, light-on-their feet wines, which the prominent Beaujolais acidity keeps brilliantly fresh, with tertiary fruit flavors that are finer and more interesting than those of the wines' youth. Granted, these wines go through a sort of garbagey stage, which I imagine to be caused by the breakdown of the typically dense primary Beaujolais fruit, but the destination is worth the journey.
Analogously, good muscadet acquires depth and even some complexity after ten years or so, including a dumb phase. Earlier than that, they don't relax enough to release the full breadth of their briny flavor spectrum and tangy dryness, which are distinct from the lemony simplicity of their youthful selves. The 2009 Briords I'm drinking now is a case in point.
So, whatever. Personally, I've come to feel I haven't gotten my money's worth in well-made wines from either of these two regions if they haven't been properly cellared.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: Older Beaujolais II (Jun 25, 2022)attendees: Brad, Cathleen, Craig, Dale, Jeff, John, Sasha
Welcome to the Second Sitting!
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My drinking experience is limited to wines from a small fraction of the vignerons named here, but I dare say all my 2009 and 2010 Foillard Cote du Py have been very good to excellent. I'm surprised by the lackluster characterizations of them here. Or am I reading the comments wrong.
How hard is it to maintain a sense of perspective - with respect to taste - as you work your way through 24 Beaujolais wines from good producers?
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
View From The Cellar.
Depending on the mood, could also mean Vaf Fan (the) Culo
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
View From The Cellar.
Depending on the mood, could also mean Vaf Fan (the) Culo
Verrry interesting. Yet you tell me that you don't understand Italian!?!?
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've never had a Beaujolais that tastes like a pinot-based Burgundy (and wouldn't want to, especially) but have had repeatedly experienced of them developing into a distinctly different gestalt - relatively perky, light-on-their feet wines, which the prominent Beaujolais acidity keeps brilliantly fresh, with tertiary fruit flavors that are finer and more interesting than those of the wines' youth. Granted, these wines go through a sort of garbagey stage, which I imagine to be caused by the breakdown of the typically dense primary Beaujolais fruit, but the destination is worth the journey.
Ian, I am not trying to take the piss here, but am genuinely curious what you mean by “tertiary fruit.” My understanding of tertiary characteristics is that they’re the non-fruit elements that develop with bottle age, such as leather, tobacco, sous bois, barnyard, earth, etc. Please elaborate.
Cornfuzzedly yours,
Mark Lipton
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Not take the piss? Who are you and what have you done with Mark?
I've understood tertiary to characterize all flavors after a wine has developed beyond the point where its most prominent flavors|aromas are primary fruit and production-related (yeast, wood ...). But let's suppose I have that wrong, then the sentence can read, in part "... with tertiary and mature fruit flavors ..." Does that help?
Young Beaujolais fruit tends to make me think of the 'dark' end of the red fruit spectrum (plums overripe cherries). The mature fruit flavors I can recall tasting in well-aged Beaujolais, by contrast, lean towards the 'light' (strawberries, raspberries). In order to characterize the non-fruit tertiary flavors, I'd have to have a glass in hand now.
The highly imaginative could construe these as pinot flavor and aromas, so I may be describing Pinotter-ing, but I find them to be distinct in kind from what you'd expect of a Pinot-based Burgundy. FWIW, I feel the texture also evolves, becoming suppler and glassier with age than in youth. Young cru Beaujolais always seems ever so slightly viscous and soupy to me.
The most striking characteristic of these mature wines, to my palate, is the sense of youthful vigor they present, because of the persistent (but not screechy) acidity. Overall, I've found very little in the mature versions to remind me of the wines in their youth.
I've understood tertiary to characterize all flavors after a wine has developed beyond the point where its most prominent flavors|aromas are primary fruit and production-related (yeast, wood ...). But let's suppose I have that wrong, then the sentence can read, in part "... with tertiary and mature fruit flavors ..." Does that help?
Young Beaujolais fruit tends to make me think of the 'dark' end of the red fruit spectrum (plums overripe cherries). The mature fruit flavors I can recall tasting in well-aged Beaujolais, by contrast, lean towards the 'light' (strawberries, raspberries). In order to characterize the non-fruit tertiary flavors, I'd have to have a glass in hand now.
The highly imaginative could construe these as pinot flavor and aromas, so I may be describing Pinotter-ing, but I find them to be distinct in kind from what you'd expect of a Pinot-based Burgundy. FWIW, I feel the texture also evolves, becoming suppler and glassier with age than in youth. Young cru Beaujolais always seems ever so slightly viscous and soupy to me.
The most striking characteristic of these mature wines, to my palate, is the sense of youthful vigor they present, because of the persistent (but not screechy) acidity. Overall, I've found very little in the mature versions to remind me of the wines in their youth.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
View From The Cellar.
Depending on the mood, could also mean Vaf Fan (the) Culo
Verrry interesting. Yet you tell me that you don't understand Italian!?!?
Was fluent as a child, so could be probably become again if I lived there, but right now it's dormant, so reading, or watching videos, is a bit of a chore. Expletives excepted.
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
Lapierre is another story, though I think 19 and 20 are back to happy early drinkability. Whether that's worth $35-45 is YMMV.
Just recently bought a bottle of the 21 Lapierre “S” while dropping our son off in college in Maine. I opened it last night and am happy to confirm that I agree with your assessment, Jim. I gave up buying Lapierre in 15 or so as it seemed too dark and extracted. Last night’s bottle was so light and perfumed that it brought me back to a magical day in ‘01 when we spent the afternoon with M. Lapierre in his cellars (15 different barrel samples — not bad for a guy who made a single cuvée) before repairing with him to his courtyard for an evening repast of bread, cheese and charcouterie.
Mark Lipton