2007 Levet Côte-Rôtie La Chavaroche

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Salil Benegal

Salil Benegal
Hadn't opened one of these for a few years, but decided to check in (rule of 15 and all that) and this hit the spot last night. Lots of meaty, earthy, olivey goodness and bright red fruit. Really fragrant and very aromatically open from the first pour. The tannin's certainly there but feels fine grained and most of the structure seems to come from the acidity, which gives this a really juicy, refreshing feel. Glad I have more. One to drink and hold.
 
That's good to hear, Salil. My Levet holdings are younger, but it gives me hope for the future.

Mark Lipton
 
Salil, you are drinking well. Thanks for the data point. (I have Levet '10 and '14 so need to wait some more, but I also have 01,04,05,06 from other C-R folks so my next cellar pull....)
 
Can someone explain to me the origin of the Rule of 15? I've been drinking Northern Rhônes for over 40 years and have never noticed anything more than an occasional closing period, as opposed to, say Burgundy or Bordeaux. Moreover, based on more than twenty years of visits in the cellars, I can say that the producers not only don't wait 15 years, they have little left of their own wines after 15 years.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Can someone explain to me the origin of the Rule of 15? I've been drinking Northern Rhônes for over 40 years and have never noticed anything more than an occasional closing period, as opposed to, say Burgundy or Bordeaux. Moreover, based on more than twenty years of visits in the cellars, I can say that the producers not only don't wait 15 years, they have little left of their own wines after 15 years.
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good question. part of the answer of course is how you like your wine. for example, the brits tend to prefer wines with more bottle age than the french do.

yves gangloff told me that, with a few exceptions, syrah should be drunk within 12 years.
 
Not sure the origin. But I’d call it more a rule of thumb based on wines that tended to be reductive and have a shut down period.

In fact, 2007 Levet Chavroche has been drinking beautifully (especially with a a bit of air) for a number of years now.

As another example of defying the rule, I’ve had really great 2012 Allemand Reynards and (per your suggestion) it only shut down for few years. Drinking beautifully. And certain wines like Juge 2011, 2012, and 2014 never shut down.

That said, Gangloff must have been talking about his own wines or wines in which many of us would have little interest. That view of a 12-year window is myopic and runs against the grain of massive collective evidence from wine lovers everywhere.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm: Can someone explain to me the origin of the Rule of 15? I've been drinking Northern Rhônes for over 40 years and have never noticed anything more than an occasional closing period
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Claude, glad to see you pose this question as it is something I've been wondering for a long time. Like you, I have found Rhones to be enjoyable without noticeable gaps.

. . . . . Pete
 
"That said, Gangloff must have been talking about his own wines or wines in which many of us would have little interest. That view of a 12-year window is myopic and runs against the grain of massive collective evidence from wine lovers everywhere."

or perhaps a difference of taste and opinion. he didn't say "most of my wines", he was talking about syrah wines in general.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
"That said, Gangloff must have been talking about his own wines or wines in which many of us would have little interest. That view of a 12-year window is myopic and runs against the grain of massive collective evidence from wine lovers everywhere."

or perhaps a difference of taste and opinion. he didn't say "most of my wines", he was talking about syrah wines in general.
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Admittedly I was being perhaps overly snarky. But the notion that most Syrah should be drink within 12 years strikes me as just wrong if applied to the vast majority of high quality Syrah I’ve had or read about others having over the last 24+ years.
 
well, you and yves may have differing tastes. he didn't say 'high quality syrah', although it would seem that he was not talking about syrah vin ordinare.

but maybe as an example, i see alain graillot as the top dog in crozes hermitage, yet would expect his regular bottling to be at its best before 12 years after the vintage. his guiraude bottling would likely be still out there breaking the waves, but that is a very small portion of his production, and to have this bottling still performing would not violate the notion that most syrah should be drunk by the time that it is 12 years old.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
"That said, Gangloff must have been talking about his own wines or wines in which many of us would have little interest. That view of a 12-year window is myopic and runs against the grain of massive collective evidence from wine lovers everywhere."

or perhaps a difference of taste and opinion. he didn't say "most of my wines", he was talking about syrah wines in general.
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René Rostaing used to tell me that he always drank his wines within ten years of the vintage because after that wines began to taste the same (i.e., Bordeaux, Burgundy, Northern Rhônes). I can't say that I have found that to be the case.
 
originally posted by robert ames:


but maybe as an example, i see alain graillot as the top dog in crozes hermitage, yet would expect his regular bottling to be at its best before 12 years after the vintage. his guiraude bottling would likely be still out there breaking the waves, but that is a very small portion of his production, and to have this bottling still performing would not violate the notion that most syrah should be drunk by the time that it is 12 years old.
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This raises another question. Do people really think La Guiraude was better than the regular bottling? I never did and didn't bother to cellar it even when the premium over the regular bottling was fairly minor.

At any rate, some insight into what people used to think about the aging capacity of Rhônes, in 2000, when I was visiting Graillot, he proudly pulled out a bottle of 1990 La Guiraude to demonstrate that it was still drinking at ten years of age (which to me, was nice, but unremarkable).

Another tidbit: Jean-Louis Chave back in the 1990s insisted that Saint-Joseph (red) was a wine to drink within three years of the vintage and called it a wine for sausages. When I told him that my experience was that his wine could age substantially longer, he was totally uninterested. Whether coincidental or not, it seems to me that he only began treating Saint-Joseph as a serious wine when Guigal acquired Grippat's plots.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
Not sure the origin. But I’d call it more a rule of thumb based on wines that tended to be reductive and have a shut down period.
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It's true that strong reduction used to be very common in Northern Rhônes and made them problematic for many people when young. But that was when the winemaking was different and that all changed in the 1980s and early 1990s.
 
I always thought BJ invented the rule of 15. There's nothing mysterious about it. He found he liked most of his Northern Rhones best after they were 15. The rule wasn't handed down by Dionysius, and you don't have to follow it if you don't want to. I remember once when he extended it to Southern Rhones and I immediately objected. For CdP, I hold rigorously to my rule of 10.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
This raises another question. Do people really think La Guiraude was better than the regular bottling? I never did and didn't bother to cellar it even when the premium over the regular bottling was fairly minor.
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Occasionally, yes, but not often enough to make me seek it out.
 
Wow, don't look at WD a couple weeks and look what happens.

Yes, I am the originator of the Rule. As with most things on WD, something I both find true and also like to have fun with. "Obey ye the Rule of 15" etc..

I applied it to higher quality northern Rhones syrahs. Not run of the mill stuff.

I still hold to it - I have just had too many of these wines too young. And so many beauties with patience. I have yet to try something at 15 that I thought I waited too long on.

Using French producers as a bellweather is just counterproductive, they just don't seem to like older wines. The 12 year max rule is frankly laughable.

I definitely have a more British palate.

Like all Rules, there are exceptions.

Juge would be a great example.

Jonathan, I don't remember extrapolating the Rule to southern Rhones. I was wrong. However, I don't like them young - but the aging timeframe would be more variable.

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Oh, and I'm going to be a definite counter voice on Graillot - I have yet to have a bottle that excites me. I just don't think he has the terroir. So many good nortern Crozes that have more going on a la St. Joseph.
 
I'm telling you, on Southern Rhones--except for plain CdRs, the rule of 10 works. For Chateauneuf, it should at least be drinking well by that age. I have gotten in fights on this board and others when I said, after 10 years, that the 95 Pegau wouldn't amount to anything, and these days, on Berserkers, for saying that the problem with the 07 Pegau is not that it is overripe, but that it may never come around. Plenty of CdPs will go ages longer than 10, but you should be able to start drinking them by then.

On the other hand, any decent Gigondas, Vacqueyras or even Cairanne should be able to make it to 10 with still stuff to show. Some Gigondases go much longer. Many Vacqueyrases and Cairannes are nearing the end of their prime. But they will get to 10.

So the rule of 10: start drinking your Chateauneufs then and finish your other Southern Rhone crus then and you won't be unhappy.
 
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