The light, delicate, elegant red thread

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
(Of course, I also rec'd an advert for a restaurant pouring some no-name BoJo Novo by the glass for the same as the cost of the whole bottle.)

When I noted that practice in general for the Big Apple some time ago on the internet, I was completely excoriated by a NYC somm.

Despite high markups it isn't often true that a glass is the price of a bottle but Beaujolais Nouveau is so inexpensive that it happens.

I agree with Claude that it is a bit crazy. Ok, say the bottle is $10 wholesale to the restaurant. The retail price is then around $15. If a glass is $15 in a restaurant (assuming Jeff means "price of the bottle" means a bottle sold in a store) and they get 4.5 pours per bottle, they make $67.50 per bottle. That does seem high.

The old rule of thumb was "first glass pays for the bottle." E.G. in Mark's example above, the wine would be priced at $10 per glass.

Psychologically, for wines in wide distribution with familiar pricing, matching the glass price to the retail bottle price seems like it would make the high margins BtG more noticeable to consumers.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
(Of course, I also rec'd an advert for a restaurant pouring some no-name BoJo Novo by the glass for the same as the cost of the whole bottle.)

When I noted that practice in general for the Big Apple some time ago on the internet, I was completely excoriated by a NYC somm.

Despite high markups it isn't often true that a glass is the price of a bottle but Beaujolais Nouveau is so inexpensive that it happens.

I agree with Claude that it is a bit crazy. Ok, say the bottle is $10 wholesale to the restaurant. The retail price is then around $15. If a glass is $15 in a restaurant (assuming Jeff means "price of the bottle" means a bottle sold in a store) and they get 4.5 pours per bottle, they make $67.50 per bottle. That does seem high.

Not quibbling much (especially knowing your familiarity with the biz) but isn't the rule of thumb 5 glasses per bottle? Assuming a 5 oz pour (150 ml for the rest of the world) seems reasonable to me.

Mark Lipton

 

[Claude Kolm]

Yesterday in a café here in Paris I noticed a sign that (unidentified) Bojo Novo was 4.5e per 14cl glass, 20e per bottle. This was not a place where you'd go looking for decent wine (we went for coffee and tea to warm us on a snowy day), so that was probably a high markup on the bottle (see next paragraph), but if the café reflected the real wholesale cost, they'd practically be giving the wine away free by the glass.

Later, I picked up a bottle of Drouhin Beaujolais-Villages Nouveau at 6.20e (about $6.50, including tax) and of Cambon Beaujolais Nouveau at 7.50e (about $7.80, including tax). They both are much less ripe than we've seen in recent Beaujolais vintages, and indeed there may be some pyrazines (I'm not very sensitive), but they aren't bad, and the Cambon is even quite attractive for the price.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Yesterday in a café here in Paris I noticed a sign that (unidentified) Bojo Novo was 4.5e per 14cl glass, 20e per bottle. This was not a place where you'd go looking for decent wine (we went for coffee and tea to warm us on a snowy day), so that was probably a high markup on the bottle (see next paragraph), but if the café reflected the real wholesale cost, they'd practically be giving the wine away free by the glass.

Later, I picked up a bottle of Drouhin Beaujolais-Villages Nouveau at 6.20e (about $6.50, including tax) and of Cambon Beaujolais Nouveau at 7.50e (about $7.80, including tax). They both are much less ripe than we've seen in recent Beaujolais vintages, and indeed there may be some pyrazines (I'm not very sensitive), but they aren't bad, and the Cambon is even quite attractive for the price.

Same Cambon that is Chamonard's B label?

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Yesterday in a café here in Paris I noticed a sign that (unidentified) Bojo Novo was 4.5e per 14cl glass, 20e per bottle. This was not a place where you'd go looking for decent wine (we went for coffee and tea to warm us on a snowy day), so that was probably a high markup on the bottle (see next paragraph), but if the café reflected the real wholesale cost, they'd practically be giving the wine away free by the glass.

Later, I picked up a bottle of Drouhin Beaujolais-Villages Nouveau at 6.20e (about $6.50, including tax) and of Cambon Beaujolais Nouveau at 7.50e (about $7.80, including tax). They both are much less ripe than we've seen in recent Beaujolais vintages, and indeed there may be some pyrazines (I'm not very sensitive), but they aren't bad, and the Cambon is even quite attractive for the price.

Same Cambon that is Chamonard's B label?

That I can't say. The only information on the bottle about the estate is that it's in Belleville-en-Beaujolais, although given where I purchased it, the Chamonard link could well be the case. There is a full list of nutritional ingredients on the back label, though.

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
(Of course, I also rec'd an advert for a restaurant pouring some no-name BoJo Novo by the glass for the same as the cost of the whole bottle.)

When I noted that practice in general for the Big Apple some time ago on the internet, I was completely excoriated by a NYC somm.

Despite high markups it isn't often true that a glass is the price of a bottle but Beaujolais Nouveau is so inexpensive that it happens.

I agree with Claude that it is a bit crazy. Ok, say the bottle is $10 wholesale to the restaurant. The retail price is then around $15. If a glass is $15 in a restaurant (assuming Jeff means "price of the bottle" means a bottle sold in a store) and they get 4.5 pours per bottle, they make $67.50 per bottle. That does seem high.

Not quibbling much (especially knowing your familiarity with the biz) but isn't the rule of thumb 5 glasses per bottle? Assuming a 5 oz pour (150 ml for the rest of the world) seems reasonable to me.

Mark Lipton

at the restaurant i buy for we do 6oz. pours. so 4 pours for a bottle with 1.4oz to play with

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
(Of course, I also rec'd an advert for a restaurant pouring some no-name BoJo Novo by the glass for the same as the cost of the whole bottle.)

When I noted that practice in general for the Big Apple some time ago on the internet, I was completely excoriated by a NYC somm.

Despite high markups it isn't often true that a glass is the price of a bottle but Beaujolais Nouveau is so inexpensive that it happens.

I agree with Claude that it is a bit crazy. Ok, say the bottle is $10 wholesale to the restaurant. The retail price is then around $15. If a glass is $15 in a restaurant (assuming Jeff means "price of the bottle" means a bottle sold in a store) and they get 4.5 pours per bottle, they make $67.50 per bottle. That does seem high.

Not quibbling much (especially knowing your familiarity with the biz) but isn't the rule of thumb 5 glasses per bottle? Assuming a 5 oz pour (150 ml for the rest of the world) seems reasonable to me.

Mark Lipton

at the restaurant i buy for we do 6oz. pours. so 4 pours for a bottle with 1.4oz to play with

Wow. Most generous. I presume that you use stemware large enough to accommodate those large pours.

Mark Lipton

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Yesterday in a café here in Paris I noticed a sign that (unidentified) Bojo Novo was 4.5e per 14cl glass, 20e per bottle. This was not a place where you'd go looking for decent wine (we went for coffee and tea to warm us on a snowy day), so that was probably a high markup on the bottle (see next paragraph), but if the café reflected the real wholesale cost, they'd practically be giving the wine away free by the glass.

Later, I picked up a bottle of Drouhin Beaujolais-Villages Nouveau at 6.20e (about $6.50, including tax) and of Cambon Beaujolais Nouveau at 7.50e (about $7.80, including tax). They both are much less ripe than we've seen in recent Beaujolais vintages, and indeed there may be some pyrazines (I'm not very sensitive), but they aren't bad, and the Cambon is even quite attractive for the price.

And so... sounds just like here... bottle in resto is 3x bottle in shop, glass in resto approx. same as bottle in shop.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
And so... sounds just like here... bottle in resto is 3x bottle in shop, glass in resto approx. same as bottle in shop.

i've read the thread and still don't know what the markup on 79 ch des tours is at fatschloss, or how big the pours are

 

[robert ames]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by robert ames:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
(Of course, I also rec'd an advert for a restaurant pouring some no-name BoJo Novo by the glass for the same as the cost of the whole bottle.)

When I noted that practice in general for the Big Apple some time ago on the internet, I was completely excoriated by a NYC somm.

Despite high markups it isn't often true that a glass is the price of a bottle but Beaujolais Nouveau is so inexpensive that it happens.

I agree with Claude that it is a bit crazy. Ok, say the bottle is $10 wholesale to the restaurant. The retail price is then around $15. If a glass is $15 in a restaurant (assuming Jeff means "price of the bottle" means a bottle sold in a store) and they get 4.5 pours per bottle, they make $67.50 per bottle. That does seem high.

Not quibbling much (especially knowing your familiarity with the biz) but isn't the rule of thumb 5 glasses per bottle? Assuming a 5 oz pour (150 ml for the rest of the world) seems reasonable to me.

Mark Lipton

at the restaurant i buy for we do 6oz. pours. so 4 pours for a bottle with 1.4oz to play with

Wow. Most generous. I presume that you use stemware large enough to accommodate those large pours.

Mark Lipton

riedel degustazione red wine with pour line, and riedel restaurant extreme Sauvignon/Riesling 45/405.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Yesterday in a café here in Paris I noticed a sign that (unidentified)
Later, I picked up a bottle of Drouhin Beaujolais-Villages Nouveau at 6.20e (about $6.50, including tax) and of Cambon Beaujolais Nouveau at 7.50e (about $7.80, including tax). They both are much less ripe than we've seen in recent Beaujolais vintages, and indeed there may be some pyrazines (I'm not very sensitive), but they aren't bad, and the Cambon is even quite attractive for the price.

I tried the Brun L'Ancien Beaujolais Nouveau 2024 (the more expensive of his nouveau releases) last night and it, too, was quite thin and green (smelled an underripe stem aroma - probably the pyrazines Claude refers to) compared to all the previous years I can remember. $21 retail where I am.

 

[fatboy]

originally posted by BJ:
O where did u find something like that?

i was fortunate enough to acquire a decent stash of this in a cellar sale some 10 years ago. it has shown quite consistently across that time, though it could be that the color was paler on this one (or i was less inebriated at the time). time will tell -- i had thought that this was teh last bottle, but just found another whilst rooting in teh fatcave for something else.

sometimes not keeping teh detailed inventory is a bonus

fb.

 

[maureen]

A 2007 monprivato brought by cristi to dinner the other night was, at least in context, a light, delicae, elegant and altogether lovely (if still a bit young) red.

 

[Cole Kendall]

originally posted by fatboy:

originally posted by BJ:
O where did u find something like that?

sometimes not keeping teh detailed inventory is a bonus

I am a strong believer in this. I have a rather vague sense of what I have purchased and of that what I have drunk, and I am routinely surprised by what I can find when I dig around in my cellar, mostly in a positive way.

 

[Bill Lundstrom]

I think this qualifies, Girolamo Russo, 'a Rina 2022 Etna Rosso. NERELLO MASCALESE 90%, NERELLO CAPPUCCIO 10% (from their website)

This is the lightest nerello I have ever had. Light red in the glass, red fruits, tingly acidity , easy to drink and pretty elegant. Wife and I made quick work of this with pork tenderloin and boy choy for dinner.

My first experience with this producer and I'm impressed.
About $30. ABV says 14.5% but I really doubt it's that high. Regardless, it's delicious.

 

[mark e]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
I think this qualifies, Girolamo Russo, 'a Rina 2022 Etna Rosso.
ABV says 14.5% but I really doubt it's that high.

I only have accurate data on the 2021s. The "'a Rina" is 14% and the Calderara Sottana is 15%, so the 14.5% is indeed possible as this is a producer who picks ripe.

 

[Bill Lundstrom]

originally posted by mark e:

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
I think this qualifies, Girolamo Russo, 'a Rina 2022 Etna Rosso.
ABV says 14.5% but I really doubt it's that high.

I only have accurate data on the 2021s. The "'a Rina" is 14% and the Calderara Sottana is 15%, so the 14.5% is indeed possible as this is a producer who picks ripe.

sure doesn't taste like it. the 2018 was 13.5% for a reference point.

 

[Brézème]

Jean Claude Chanudet (Domaine Chamonard) and Marie Lapierre are not owners of Cambon anymore.
Chateau Cambon has been sold in 2020 to some investors.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Brézème:
Jean Claude Chanudet (Domaine Chamonard) and Marie Lapierre are not owners of Cambon anymore.
Chateau Cambon has been sold in 2020 to some investors.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Ken Schramm]

Not sure if it is appropriate to include a producer as a whole WRT light, delicate, elegant red, but that has consistently been my experience with every one of the wines from ARPEPE that I have tasted. It doesn't seem to matter if it is their "basic" Rosso de Valtellina on up through the spendier single vineyard bottlings, I've yet to find one that didn't delight and comply with those descriptions. It may be true in different ways, some subtle and some less so, but these things all have freshness and elegance in spades to my palate. Possibly (probably?) a combination of the altitude and their philosophical approach to ripeness and vinification.